TOPIC: Getting a title for your vintage boat

Just wondering how hard it is to get a title for a vintage boat in different states. Especially when you pick up a boat that as been sitting in someone's yard for years and the previous owner has lost the titiel.
I know in NJ you need a notorized bill of sale which is still a PITA or you can go through the "abandoned vessel" route which is bureaucratic nightmare. Just wondering if it's easier in other states.

I picked up a 1959 Skagit last year without a title. The guy I bought it from didn't get one when he bought it. I called the Wisconsin DNR (super nice people) and they happily gave me the last known titled owner, his address, and his phone number. I was able to track him down and have spoken with him via phone. He is going to get a replacement title (at my cost, my offer).
Not sure what you'd do if you couldn't find the previous owner...

Good luck!

I had issues in California. I had to go back 3 times. They demanded title for both boat and trailer. The boat from Idaho and because of size and age, they didn't require title. My DMV wouldn't bend. Fortunately, I got a nice letter from the IDAHO DMV and they were able to prove they didn't need title, so with Bill of Sale I was good to go.

6 hours and 3 visits later, I finally got it registered. I understand why people say to try and register your boat before you work on it.

Almost impossible in NY unless know someone.

Last time i tried in NY, and that was over 6 years ago, if it had been previously registered, you HAD to have the last owner sign off the registration, period, or death certificate and heirs, etc. But they wouldn't tell you who the last owner was!!

Ironically, they have no record of my '58 club mariner, and so I just need to get them the bill o sale and hull number tracing - or letter from police saying there is none - and I'm good to go.



PIA, I wound up getting rid of an aristocraft and a glasspar seafair phaeton early in my "fiberglassics" days because of it.

Everything varies from state to state.

Ohio is real picky on boats and motors as fourteen feet and over must be titled, along with 10hp motors and over. I've bought two out of state boats, and with much effort, got them titles. The second only needed a motor title, as it was 13' 10" and under the limit.

Boat trailers need no title but do need weight off old registration to get properly registered.

Check an earlier posting of mine to get more details on my experience with the MFG - it was a bear!

www.fiberglassics.com/fiberglassics-forums/home/main-forum/titling-an-old-boat-and-outboard

Wisconsin is about the easiest. Bill of sale, pay sales tax and fees. No title required under 16' just registration. If you go directly to the DNR office they even print up the hull sticker for you $5. extra.
Here's a link for you to check out.
dnr.wi.gov/Permits/registrationandtitling.html#0

It might even vary by county. I did it a couple of years ago, went like this: Called NJMVC in Trenton, they sent me the paperwork I needed to petition the county court to give me ownership of vessel. Once the judge signs off then you mail it back to Trenton for a new title. The whole thing took 2 months and cost me about 60 bucks. I checked into this last year for a friend and was now $350.....ouch !

In Oregon, if the seller is the last registered owner but has simply lost the title then they fill out an additional form and have it notarized, or provide a copy of their ID to be turned in with the new owner's title application.

If the seller is not the last registered owner then the buyer contacts the Oregon State Marine Board and gets the name and address of the last registered owner. New owner fills out a form and sends it to the last registered owner via registered mail. If the last registered owner so pleases they can fill out the form and send it back, or ignore it. If no response is heard in 30 days (or if the letter is returned undeliverable) then the new owner automatically becomes the new owner in the state's eyes, assuming he fills out the title paperwork and pays the fee.

I scored fethercraft vagabond out of a scrapyard and set out to restore it. Half way through i tried to get a title here in Ohio and couldnt, It was a joke. Got online and registered it in Wisconsin by selecting out of state resident and about four weeks later my registration stickers showed up. Only cost $17. Works for outboard boats under 18 feet

dalesdeadbug wrote:

I scored fethercraft vagabond out of a scrapyard and set out to restore it. Half way through i tried to get a title here in Ohio and couldnt, It was a joke. Got online and registered it in Wisconsin by selecting out of state resident and about four weeks later my registration stickers showed up. Only cost $17. Works for outboard boats under 18 feet

Are you actually an "out of state Wisconsin resident?"

I've used Wisconsin for 4 boats, got the registration in my name and took it to the DMV in WV and got titles and WV reg here.

Never lived in or been to Wisconsin

Never been to Wisconsin? Well it's about time you do. Come on up I'll take you Musky fishing on a lake chain I love. Put the boat in and we can fish 9 lakes from that one launch. Gene

Thanks for the offer Gene

Wisconsin might be the route to go then... I'm having a hell of a time with the DMV in NJ. I've been at it for about a month already and I've gotten nowhere. They seem to have a very hard time believing me that there is no HIN on the boat, even after I tell them that HINs didn't exist in 1960.

Assign a hull number to it. Go to a local rental store and get a set of those metal stamps. A machine shop might even let you borrow one if you take your boat right there.
Stamp in a letter number combo with "60" somewhere in it.
Registration just wants a tracking number in case it goes missing.
My 69 Shell Lake just had an aluminum tag hand stamped and screwed onto the inside of the transom.

Okay...That took all of 2 minutes to register my boat in Wisconsin. THANK YOU, SO XXXXXX MUCH!

Moderator edit for language.

In Ohio, when there is no HIN (pre-1972 or missing), Ohio assigns one, like they did with my two boats, starting with "OHZ" and ending in the two digit year of the boat. Might have to guess on that last one.

I've had a couple of friends title a boat that was totally missing any sort of serial number by having the Dept. of Watercraft give it a "homemade" label for manufacturer on paperwork.

Same for registering trailers that are missing a serial number and have no other documentation - "homemade".

I was trying to avoid doing that with my rigs, so I went for what they actually were, since they still had the old non-conforming serial number tags on them.

OK... Wisconsin ROCKS and this works, amazingly well! There was a little confusion at first, because the DNR site doesn't offer online registration. but there is a gowild.wi.gov that does. I think there is a convenience fee, but I didn't have to get off my ass to actually register my 57 year old boat, making it easily transferrable/titleable to any other state. After only 2 weeks I received my registration and stickers, good till 2019, and a handy Wisconsin boaters guide, for 37 dollars. This is truly the magic wormhole that many poor souls have longed for to make a hulk of plastic that would normally cost substantial bucks to dispose of at a landfill, legal and worthy of love and restoration! You will need to register as an out of state resident, as I am, because I frequent the wonderful Wisconsin lakes and waterways, and provide a HIN. It is your responsibility to make sure this number, whatever it's configuration or origin, is permanently affixed to the hull. When the record base does not recognize the number you provide, you will be asked to verify the number with several choices. The one I chose was "physically evident on the hull" or some such. When I tried to go about this the other way, I was told that the old man who acquired the boat, with no numbers whatsoever, with his property when he bought it in 1972, would have to go in front of a judge to plead his case and be "granted" possession in order to legally give, or even sell the plastic dependency to me.
If you have an old boat you want to title, or are even thinking of buying an old untitled boat... you need to do this now, before someone puts the kibosh on it!

Can get a title here in Florida with bill of sale, and any info available from the hull. If none, you will get a title that labels the boat as "homemade" and you will get a HIN number for the transom.
Boat age comes up as now, instead of the real year it was built!!

Fill out a simple form about the ole boat (and list type of power, which has to be same as when new, (outboard, IO, etc.) and you get a State of Florida Seal decal from Dept. of Motor Vehicles, that says "Antique vessel" to display beside the reg. numbers and after you get that, reg. is ONLY $4.50 per year, versus much more for a newer boat.

Thats great Savage, if you live in Florida, no help if you dont.

And before using Wisconsin, make sure registration in your name is sufficient for YOUR state. IIRC, its not in Pennsylvania.

That's confusing to me Savage. How can they give you an antique registration on a boat titled for the current year? I thought it had to be at least 30 years old to qualify for that. I live in Florida as well, and I wasn't given the "homemade" option. They told me because of all the recent boat thefts in Miami, where HIN's were being ground off, their rules have changed. I wouldn't have wanted that anyway, only as a last resort. Prefer to have the title read authentic to the boat.

All of this illustrates dramatically why it is so easy to steal a boat and register it in another state. Why are NY and NJ (and CT) so anal about it? Because until they did it was extremely easy to steal a boat in one state register it in one of the others and the original owner, if they ever found the boat, would have to go through hell proving it was theirs. Boat theft there was rampant in the 70's and 80's and insurance companies were screaming bloody murder about it.

I worked with the International Association Of Marine Investigators (IAMI) while I was in the USCG office of Boating Safety and this was one of their major complaints. For years they have tried to get Titling a requirement in all states and a 17 character HIN requirement for boats (don't ask) Neither of which they have gotten. The USCG withdrew a proposed 17 character HIN several years back and a proposal for a universal Title form never made it out of the Federal Register.

Even so here is how it is supposed to work. For boats that have no HIN the state is supposed to determine if the boat is home made or pre 1972. They all have a form (or it's on your registration form) that essentially says (the words vary by state) that the boat was made prior to 1972 or home built, and that you certify this to be true, etc. etc.

All the states have been assigned a Manufacturers ID Code by the USCG and they should (they don't all do it) assign an HIN beginning with that states code.

DO they? No. Some do, some don't. My 1972 (built in 1971) Sea Ray has no HIN. I filled in the certification on the form and signed it. Did Washington issue an HIN for it. NO, but the serial number is in the HIN block on the registration and title.I even asked the State Boating Law Administrator (yes every state has one See NASBLA www.nasbla.org/ )and he said I didn't need one. Then I told him very politely who I was (I used to administer this for the Coast Guard), and lets just say he wasn't very receptive to some federal bureaucrat telling him his states laws were FUBAR. But I still have the paperwork.

Anyway what some of you are doing may be illegal in some states, especially in the North East, so be damned careful.

It's no easier in Canada. I thought I was going through the process fine online and when it asked me for my hull identification number (HIN) I supplied them. 31E 22000 for my 1960 Glaspar G-3 and 14E 3422 ( is this one missing a digit ?) for my 1960 Humber Regal. I spent ten minutes trying to understand the error message before I gave up. The problem ? The HIN MUST be alpha-numeric ! THOSE ARE !! There's an " E " in both and numbers !! I'm going down to the bureau and doing it the old fashioned way. In person.

Canada uses the same HIN system as the US and some programmer has set up that data field to only accept valid 12 digit HINs.

Well where the heck do they hide it ? It's not on the ID plate and the only numbers on either of my boats are the hull numbers ! I've never seen a twelve digit number on any boat in Ontario. Is there a "grandfather" clause for antiques ? Thanks Ike. Red tape makes me grind my teeth.

Got all the paperwork done for my 1962 MFG Edinboro in Ohio two weeks ago. It had been owned by the same family in New York since new.

I guess the third time was the charm. This is the third time for getting an old out of state boat properly titled and registered, and had all the right paperwork having gone through it now for a third boat.

Got my new OHZ HIN, title, new OH registration numbers and registration, paid my sales tax and I'm now good to go.

Restoration to start next month.

Well where the heck do they hide it ? It's not on the ID plate and the only numbers on either of my boats are the hull numbers ! I've never seen a twelve digit number on any boat in Ontario. Is there a "grandfather" clause for antiques ? Thanks Ike. Red tape makes me grind my teeth.

There is no HIN on those old boats.
From Canadian recreational vessel laws (TP 1332) www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp-tp1332-section1-839.htm
1.2 Hull Serial Number (HIN)
1.2.1 General

As stated by the Regulations:

HULL SERIAL NUMBERS

900. (1) This Part applies in respect of a vessel that is constructed, manufactured, rebuilt or imported in order to be sold or operated in Canada.
(2) Section 902 applies in respect of all vessels in Canada.
(3) This Part, except section 902, does not apply in respect of
(a) a vessel that is registered in another country as having the right to fly the flag of that country;
(b) a vessel that is registered under the Act, other than a vessel registered in the small vessel register;
(c) a vessel that is not licensed or registered under the Act and that is principally maintained and operated in another country;
(d) a tug; or
(e) a floating object that is less than 2 m in length and that is not designed to be propelled by an engine.
(4) Section 903 does not apply in respect of a vessel, other than a pleasure craft, whose date of construction, manufacture, rebuilding or importation is on or before the day on which these Regulations come into force or within one year after that day.

1.2.2.9 Exceptions for the Marking of Hull Serial Number (HIN)

As stated by the Regulations:

904. A vessel is not required to be marked with a hull serial number if
(a) despite reasonable efforts, the owner of the vessel is unable to obtain a hull serial number from the builder, manufacturer, rebuilder or importer of the vessel; or
(b) the vessel is constructed, manufactured, rebuilt or imported by an individual for personal use.

See also www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marine-contactus.htm for contact information. I suggest you call the National Headquarters. In Canada everything is run out of National Headquarters. Here in the states its all divided up by the states.

Thank you Peter that's going to be helpful. Government anywhere exists solely for the purpose of producing paper. At least the license is FREE in Canada once you convince them to give it to you. Have a great day. Mark.

You can go to the pet shop or hardware store and get your HIN number stamped into a brass plate like goes on a dog collar. Then drill it and place it on the transom.

Don't buy the collar!!!!LOL

Not sure about the process for Alabama, never have seen a title for our boat, Pawpaw was the original owner so, the boat has been in the family since new. I do know that when we register the boat, we need to provide the death certificates and the boat keeps the same tag numbers that it has had for all these years. The state must not have required tags before 1969 because the boat was purchased new and is a 1962 model and was purchased then, but the tags on the bow are dated 1969 Alabama Water Safety Division.

What if I already have a collar ?? LOL

Hi All.
I just recently picked up a 1958 Herters Flying Fish that doesn't have Any Registration marks or a VIN anywhere on the boat. I'm pretty certain that I can present a case that this is indeed a Herters and that quite probably has never been registered in any state. I would like to register it as a Herters and not Homemade. Does anyone have a Herters with a VIN? I'm leaning towards the Wisconsin route (I live in Maryland) but before I go there I would like to present them with a VIN (that I make up) that would be appropriate to the boat. i.e. date of manufacture, state of manufacture, length of boat, blah, blah, blah. Any advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Shipster

Dont have a Herters, but if a late 50s Herters had a number on it, it would be a SERIAL # not a HIN. Boats have Hull ID #s (HIN) not VINs. The HIN designation didnt start until Nov 1972.

And that Ser# wouldnt have state of manufacture encoded into it. Were Herters made in more then 1 state at any given point in the same model year?

The only vintage boats I have that have any meaningful info encoded in the Ser# are my Feathercrafts. They all do.

My 1960 Glastron ser# is MC160xxx
My 1957 Duracraft ser# 17650
So no meaningful info except what # off the production line each was for a given year.
1 of the Feathercrafts is Ser#
CL4 216 57B. The CL tells me its a Clipper, 4 is the month of manufacture, 216 is the order off the production line and 57 tells me what year it was made. B stands for blue anodized hull.

Those arent wholly accurate #s, but are close enough for reference, its early yet...

BUT, many Ser#s were used as HINs when HINs became required.

Ny Duracraft Ser# is its HIN, but only by the luck of the draw at the DMV. Some DMV agents allowed me to use a Ser# when I reg\title my boats and some didnt. As a Ser# is non-conforming to the current 12digit VIN style coding used for HINs. I often get a state issued HIN tag to apply to the boat because the Ser# is non-conforming. And that # would obviously have no relevant info about my boat encoded into it. Its simply a # that checks all the boxes on a DMV form.

HTH

Good luck w your Herters project. 63saber just finished a nice Herters restore a year or so agom

JB, thanks for your help. And I did see a start and finish pics of 63Sabres boat. Geogeous!!

Since my last posting almost 6 months ago Wisconsin has gone more tech savvy with registration. They will need more information than a bill of sale. Out of state will require a previous title or registration signed by the owner. If that is not available it would need to be re-registered in the state you bought it in and then the paperwork transferred. You can try the online version, might work.

Shipster,

Congratulations on your Herters find. I am just finishing up a 57 Herters Deluxe.
Herters did not use any type of number or marking system to serialize the Flying Fish models that I have ever found, and I have had a chance to look at quite a few of them.
All Herters were built in Waseca MN, Herters headquarters. Herters did have a few offsite plants, but all the ex Herters employees I have talked to said all boats were built in Waseca. I have attached a couple of photos of the building as it is still being used by a metal fab company.
The boats were built in the two Quonset huts on the far left.

Don

Go to : gowild.wi.gov to get a Wisconsin registration online, super easy. Choose out of state resident. Provide the numbers already engraved in the hull (wink, wink). These numbers should perhaps be the first two letters of the manufacturer, followed by the first letter of the model, followed by length, and finally the last two numbers of the year. When it asks for verification of this number because it doesn't match anything in their database, several choices are given, including law enforcement officer inspection, choose the one that says, "physically evident on hull." After you get your Wisconsin registration in the mail, take it to your local DMV and get your new title, just like that! Some states make it a nightmare, or completely impossible to go about it any other way.
Also, just to update, the Florida antique registration has been simplified. Used to have to get an inspection, confirming boat AND motor were of the same vintage. Now they just give it to you if it's over 30 years old, just like they do the cars. Pretty sweet!!

Subaru Scott, you were dead on as to how easy and straight forward gowild.wi.gov. is!! I'll let you now how it finishes up on the Maryland side. Again, thanks.
Shipster

I never even bothered to transfer mine to Ohio. I currently have 3 boats registered in Wisconsin. The registration is cheaper, I dont have to title my motors, and best of all no license plates on my trailers. Been doing this for 3 years and so far no problems!

Ike wrote:

All of this illustrates dramatically why it is so easy to steal a boat and register it in another state. Why are NY and NJ (and CT) so anal about it? Because until they did it was extremely easy to steal a boat in one state register it in one of the others and the original owner, if they ever found the boat, would have to go through hell proving it was theirs. Boat theft there was rampant in the 70's and 80's and insurance companies were screaming bloody murder about it.

I worked with the International Association Of Marine Investigators (IAMI) while I was in the USCG office of Boating Safety and this was one of their major complaints. For years they have tried to get Titling a requirement in all states and a 17 character HIN requirement for boats (don't ask) Neither of which they have gotten. The USCG withdrew a proposed 17 character HIN several years back and a proposal for a universal Title form never made it out of the Federal Register.

Even so here is how it is supposed to work. For boats that have no HIN the state is supposed to determine if the boat is home made or pre 1972. They all have a form (or it's on your registration form) that essentially says (the words vary by state) that the boat was made prior to 1972 or home built, and that you certify this to be true, etc. etc.

All the states have been assigned a Manufacturers ID Code by the USCG and they should (they don't all do it) assign an HIN beginning with that states code.

DO they? No. Some do, some don't. My 1972 (built in 1971) Sea Ray has no HIN. I filled in the certification on the form and signed it. Did Washington issue an HIN for it. NO, but the serial number is in the HIN block on the registration and title.I even asked the State Boating Law Administrator (yes every state has one See NASBLA www.nasbla.org/ )and he said I didn't need one. Then I told him very politely who I was (I used to administer this for the Coast Guard), and lets just say he wasn't very receptive to some federal bureaucrat telling him his states laws were FUBAR. But I still have the paperwork.

Anyway what some of you are doing may be illegal in some states, especially in the North East, so be damned careful.

Interesting stuff! I hadn't thought of the theft aspect...most of the boats restored on here are old and not very valuable to the average joe. I've been lucky enough to always have a title for the boats I've owned.