TOPIC: 1965? Evinrude Starflite 90-s shift issue

Hello everyone, fairly new to the forum thing and to boats but i am mechanically inclined. Got into boats this year as a hobby, i like to build or repair my own vehicles. Recently picked up a 64 glaspar Avalon with non working 1150 mercury, this boat will come later for restore, but my current project is a 1980 bayliner i picked up for a couple hundred that's in near perfect condition but with no motor. Traded an old bigscreen tv for a mid 60s evinrude 90s (have yet to look for the serial #). Came with all the wiring and controls, mounted it up to the bayliner and wired it up in a temporary setup to get the engine tuned and operational.

Upon first start it had rough idle and didn't stay running long, had a leak at the fuel pump so it ended up needing a new diaphragm, ordered, replaced, and fixed the idle and she runs awesome and smooth, couldn't believe it. And now that it was running it was time to test forward and reverse. Flipped the switch and it kills the engine, in fact it didn't just kill the engine, it would lock the engine up when in gear, tried a few times both directions and it almost seemed as if it was putting power to both coils, so i unhooked the switch and manually connected red to blue, locks up, red to green locks up, even manually connected power at the connectors behind the motor that run down to the coils, same thing happens.

But then heres the weird thing, took the motor out of the water, manually supplied power to one of the coils, and turn the propeller and it turns the motor, worked with both coils. I do believe my problem lies in the gears but before i start the tear down of the bottom end i'd like to get more feedback. I have pictures and a video i will post a little later.

Sorry for the long post

Here is a little video of what happens when i put it in gear. I also tried to start it while it was in gear and the starter wouldn't make it budge.

Could have bad a gear or bearings.Need to take it down and check it out. please post some pics if you do.Can I ask what type oil are you running in your gear case? It is VERY important to run the correct oil.

I will post pics up this evening after work. Oil needs to be changed but I wanted to go through the testing process before doing all the major maintenance so I don't know whats in it right now. I will be doing a full lower end reseal and bearing if needed plus new water pump. I will most likely have the time to dismantle it this weekend. Hoping the gears are good cause those are the most expensive. hahaha.

I really hope you don't have anything major wrong with it,Brandon. I'm no expert on these engines,but have resealed a couple of the lower units and will help any way I can. jim

Thanks a lot Jim, realy appreciate the help. Whats got me confused is when its out of the water and I supply power to one of the coils and manually turn the prop it cranks the engine, worked for both coils. Do you think its possible that when its in the water the case could be filling with water and shorting out both coils causing it to lock up? Just a though, lol.

YES,I would check that oil before I did anything else. Water and electric shifts don't get along, especially when the oil and water separate. These electrics are really good units if the right oil is used. I've had 3 of them with one being bought new in '63 by my Dad.Only trouble I've ever had with the electric part was the shift wire that goes down to the lower got burnt in two on the forward wire in the exhaust housing one time and that was my fault for not having the heat wrap sleeve on the wire good enough.I still was able to get back to the dock..backwards And the motor was 40 years old then LOL.

haha that's awesome. So that will be my first check when I get home today. Check the oil and then i'm gona try turning it over while out of the water and see if it frees up. Not actually gona start it but just to check if it will go into gear. lol.

brandon80 wrote:

haha that's awesome. So that will be my first check when I get home today. Check the oil and then i'm gona try turning it over while out of the water and see if it frees up. Not actually gona start it but just to check if it will go into gear. lol.

Brandon, when you test forward try turning your prop counterclockwise as this will tell you the spring on the hub locks to the hub as it should and clockwise when checking reverse. jim

yeah, it would turn both ways by hand when a coil is engaged. took it apart and found this.... Ok so my pics are to big, need to find software to reduce....ugh

Here we go...

Checked model number 90483s is a 1964. Does anyone know what the S stands for?

Here's a few pics of the motor and lower end disassembled.

I could not believe how good in shape the coils are. Sucks that the one bearing I need is a 100 bucks. lol

Man, you don't waste any time!! Great pics too. Don't know about the S, maybe Selectric shift?? Where did you price the bearing,Brandon?

So your electric part is fine?That's really a neat design isn't it. No clutch dog to wear out.No linkage to get sloppy.Of course they can have issues too. I know a lot of people don't understand them and so, don't like em. I really like the easy shifting of both the Evinrude push button and the Johnson single lever shifts. Of course, that my 2 cents LOL

Here you go,Brandon. That's the bearing/race for a '62 75 hp. Pretty sure it takes the same bearing. Another...

Yeah the electrics are good, after pulling the drive shaft I supplied power to a the coils and manually tested them and they worked great. Thanks for trying to hunt for the part but the part number I need is 378264, number 84 in the picture. Marine engine has it for 115 but I found it on another sight for 85, www.duskyonline.com/0378264-p-evinrude-johnson-parts.html . I'll keep hunting but theres also about 150 in seals and gaskets I need. gona have to put her on hold for about a month.

Brandon, are the needle bearings or cage damaged? I don't know if you know this or not so I apologize if you do ,but they do just fall out when you separate the gearcase from the upper housing.I always have to put some assembly lube or grease in there to hold them in place when I reassemble. jim

Hello Brandon: I have been into a few electric shift lower gear cases before and it sounds like both coils are engaging at the same time. You have a short someplace in the system. If this is the problem that means both wires (one to each coil) are energized at the same time. Start in the lower leg where the wires can get burnt and expose the wires shorting the system. Work your way back through the harness and into the controller. When you shifted the motor into forward and it snubbed itself, did you try shifting the motor into reverse instead of forward to see what would happen?

As far as the bearing it has been my experience that after the drive shaft is removed from that bearing the needles just fall out. There is no bearing case that holds them into place. So...you may not be in need of a new bearing.

Greg Anderson
Wisconsin

Thanks jim and gdanderson for your advice, after seeing your comments I went out to the garage and checked the bearing to make sure all the rollers were there and sure enouph I had them all, even after they got scattered across the garage, hahahaha. A short is a good possibility too, definitely was getting water in the gear case to, wasn't much oil in it and it was a milky white. Looks like someone had tried to reseal it at one time and they used rtv sealant on the case and the water pump was missing the gasket. I'm gona redo the wires when I put it back together, just glad I don't need to buy a $100 bearing, haha. If I have time tomorrow I'm gona put it all back together and give er a test. If all is good I'm gona order me some seals and gaskets asap. Also have a question about the water pump, it looks in realy good shape like it was replaced right before it had issues, lol. Is there a way to tell if the water pump impeller is still good?

Is there a way to tell if the water pump impeller is still good?

(You're going to hate me for this Brandon, they're so much fun getting the impeller back in the housing! LOL) Take the impeller out of the housing and lay it on the bench for an hour or two. If the blades go back to straight (or almost straight), it should be reusable. If they stay bent, I'd replace it - they're not that expensive and it's cheap insurance to make sure you've got plenty of cooling.

Incorrect gear oil or water will conduct electricity and the possibility exists that both shift coils may be powered simultaneously. If that happens, the engine will stall.

Regarding the water pump impeller, the best way to install it is to put it on the shaft, smear a little grease inside the housing and slide the housing down against the impeller. Rotate the drive shaft CW as you push the housing down and it will fold the blades back and the housing will slip right into place.

Brandon, if the housing is not pitted or not showing but very little wear and the impeller shows very little wear and is still very pliable,I'd say you could run it. I bought a parts motor one time that had an almost new looking pump and housing on it. It's still in my Johnson now after 2 years.But I'll be replacing it after this season.jim

If you look on the actual bearing itself you can see the part number and mfg. Phone book can direct you to a local or close by parts dealer, maybe even a truck dealer that match that part number up for you and have the bearing at a very reasonable price.

The bearing actually looks in great shape so it must have been both coils locking it up. The housing for the water pump is a little scuffed but no pitting or major scratches, and the impeller is in great shape, still very pliable.

You can prolly get by with that impeller for a while, but if it was me, I'd just put a new one in just to know it was fresh and not think it was when I do the LU seals cause it will have to be disassembled again anyway.Then you can be done with it for a while. Are your drive shaft and prop shaft grooved much where the seals ride on them?? I had that issue a while back and ended up fleabaying a NOS driveshaft and NOS upper bearing cap/seal. Glad I did. I give ya a karma point for attacking this head on. Great job taking it down. jim

Thanks Jim! I'll give the drive shafts a check later tonight.

Brandon: Where the lower gear case attaches to the lower leg is a place where the two wires from the coils get pinched. There is very little room for the wires. The wires get crushed as you tighten the lower gear case to the lower leg. I would look close at that area.

Greg Anderson
Wisconsin

Brandon,I was noticing one of your knife disconnects on the bottom end of the shift cable wire where the bullet gearcase joins the upper housing is broken and gone. If it turns out you need one,I have some spare wire ends that I'll mail you which ever wire you need (green or Blue) about 2" long to splice on to save that $100+ shift cable.

(quote; Where the lower gear case attaches to the lower leg is a place where the two wires from the coils get pinched.)


Funny you mention that, I haven't pulled the wire all the way out yet but I noticed it was bunched up pretty good in that area. I'm gona replace the wires anyway. lol.

I will let you know on the wires jim, I accidently pulled one when removing it, lol, they were shrink wrapped pretty good. haha. I might replace them with a different type of connector if I can't salvage what I have. but thank you for the offer.



Jim L wrote:

Brandon,I was noticing one of your knife disconnects on the bottom end of the shift cable wire where the bullet gearcase joins the upper housing is broken and gone. If it turns out you need one,I have some spare wire ends that I'll mail you which ever wire you need (green or Blue) about 2" long to slice on to save that $100+ shift cable.

Ordered up the gaskets and seals but I have a question on what to use for assembly grease that will be compatible with the gear oil. I definitely don't want to use something that will mess with the oil. Any recommendations?

I just use a good non-fiber wheel bearing grease. It will get blended in with the type C anyway.

Jim L wrote:

I just use a good non-fiber wheel bearing grease. It will get blended in with the type C anyway.

Cool, that's what I used, lol, thanks jim.

So I'm cleaning up parts and wrapping them up to set aside until the gaskets and seals arrive and I found out a little more. Pretty sure it was definitely shorting out both coils. When I pulled the wires out of the lower case they pretty much fell apart as they were bunched up inside the little pocket where the gear case and the lower have bolt up.

And I noticed another odd thing, the metal around where the coils are closest to have melted or arced away. Not sure if I'm explaining it correctly, lol, but pictures are best anyway. haha. Theres no cracking or major damage so I'm hoping this won't be a problem.

Well Brandon, you got out of having to buy a $100 bearing only to have to buy a $100 + shift cable. Man,your luck runs like mine. You might could patch it, but I don't know if I would trust it. I'll keep an eye out for one for ya if you want. jim

Jim, you got me confused, lol, why would I need to purchase a new cable? Is this made in a special way that you can't rewire it?

It's encased in a rubber sleeve/boot that seals water tight when pulled up through the upper housing. You might can figure a way of patching the old one,but like I said,I wouldn't trust it.

Wow that's crazy for something that's not that hard to make. I'm gonna check it out tonight and see just how bad it is. Thanks Jim.

Ok so I got to do some more work today on it and found another thing that didn't seam right, lol. Under the water pump housing it looks like something had gotten in there and made a nice gouge inside the shaft hole.



It doesn't go all the way through so I think I'm ok, lol, but sheesh, I'm wondering whats next. At least I was able to repair the shift cable wires, came out pretty good, should be water tight.

Brandon, I noticed you got some wrung off bolts where your upper bearing cap goes plus your cable's bad so I spotted this on bay today. If you could make an offer and get this for a good price, you can kill two birds with one stone and have no broken bolts to deal with, plus a good shifter cable too.Just an idea. jimhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/1962-OMC-JOHNSON-EVINRUDE-V4AL-14-75HP-OUTBOARD-MOTOR-LOWER-UNIT-MID-HOUSING-/300730438727?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item4604ee5447&vxp=mtr