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TOPIC: 1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod
Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 8 months ago #108195
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Thanks for the pointers! Next time out I will start at 10 BTC and adjust as necessary.
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 8 months ago #108263
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Humm...
Considering your distributor is 24 deg all in, most are. Then plus the 10 that's 34. Which in my humble opinion is pushing it in a marine application. Your hotter than normal cam may give you some headroom but I bet your compression is higher than normal (for a boat motor) also. I would go for 32 total to be on the safe side. Detonation you cant hear will hammer holes in pistons in short order under continuous loading. MarkW |
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Boats: 76 Chrysler Conqueror S3, 61 Larson Playmate. Outboards: 76 Chrysler 105, 70 Chrysler 70, 57 Evinrude Bigtwin 35, 80 Johnson 35 looper, 74 Chrysler 45, 67 Mercury 650SS, and others.
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 8 months ago #108266
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Andrew: Standard timing for an early 1960's 327 @250 HP is 4 degrees BTDC, 8 degrees BTDC if the engine is rated @300 HP. However, that assumes you are using leaded gasoline. Without knowing the lift and duration of the cam, I'd say starting at 8 BTDC would be a safe bet but I'd still watch the tach under load @3500 RPM and set the timing to peak the meter. If the valves begin to ping, back off the timing until the pinging stops. That will be your final setting, whatever it turns out to be. Naturally, you'll want to stay away from gas with ethanol.
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Website: NautilusRestorations.com
Mentor to the unenlightened! "Never allow logic to interfere with a boat purchase." - J. S. Hadley "Vintage quality beats new junk every time." - J. S. Hadley "Anything supposed to do two things does both of them half-assed." - J. S. Hadley "Success makes... |
Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #109412
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Test run #2 is in the books. Absolutely no leaks of any kind and the shifter performed as it should. I'm still not happy with the Comp Cams 268H, I regret installing it now. In fact, I am seriously considering pulling it out and replacing with the a 350 horse 327 cam. I've used this cam many time and have always been happy.
So far, so good with the 800 series stringer. After both trips (short) the drive is still full of oil and no water intrusion. The hull of the Johnson Deluxe is remarkedly stable. This boat rides, turns, and crosses wakes without any lean or sway. The ride is just like a car, in the water! I love it!! Plus, there isn't anything on the water like it. The lakes are full of cookie cutter boats and the Deluxe catches everyones eyes. 
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #109417
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Really happy for you Andrew, you've earned the smiles on this one! Awesome job sir.
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Mark
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #109422
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why are you not happy with the comp 268H? the 350hp/327 Duntov cam is a good one,and always performed well for me too. skipp
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #109426
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MarkS wrote:
Thanks Mark, it's been a ton of work and fun too. Got a few more things to finish up before snatching the kids around on a tube this summer! |
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #109428
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talltales wrote:
Hey Skipp! The big trouble for me is when I lower the initial timing below 18-20 degrees, I have to turn the idle stop screw in to keep it idling at 800 rpms. Turning the idle up that far exposes the transition slot in the carburetor. This pulls fuel out the main venturi and floods the engine. The only way I have found to prevent it is to keep the timing set way up, 20 and higher. Too dang high in my opinion. I believe the 268h would perform flawlessly in an engine with vacuum advance. |
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #109433
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The most modern flat tappet cams out there are these Lunati VooDoo's
www.lunatipower.com/ProductGroup.aspx?id=287&cid=58 The 701 has a very slight lope to it in a 350. But even the 700 is going to be overall better than any old stock GM cam. The required mechanical advance is going to be a limiting factor. That and the rpm limit to keep a marine engine from having a short life limits your cam choices. Be sure you run oil that has zinc in it so your flat tappets will live. Rotella T synthetic 15W-40 is a fave around here. IIRC the BTDC of a GM 350 Mercruser 260hp was 10 deg. |
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Boats: 76 Chrysler Conqueror S3, 61 Larson Playmate. Outboards: 76 Chrysler 105, 70 Chrysler 70, 57 Evinrude Bigtwin 35, 80 Johnson 35 looper, 74 Chrysler 45, 67 Mercury 650SS, and others.
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #109441
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Andrew, she looks absolutely phenominal!!!!!!!!!!! Great job my friend kudo's to you!
Bob |
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #109442
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The point about the Zinc is something new to me. I had not realized that modern motor oil had removed that important part that flat tapped cams need. I will going to the rotella asap! Thanks for sharing that info.
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #109443
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Waterwings wrote:
Thanks Bob! Your boat looks great too, please keep foreign objects out of the router!!! Haha |
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #109494
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Yea I think the EPA hippies want to destroy all the older pre roller cam engines.
It would be super to go to a roller cam, but big $$$ if your block is not milled for stock style roller lifters. When we say 'Zinc' we really mean the whole anti scuff package that its part of. Shell Rotella T 15W-40 is a great oil for heavy duty use in gas engines. It comes in full syn and part syn. The general consensus among the gear heads, is that full synthetics are good enough not to need zinc to prevent galling AFTER break in. Mineral oils always need zinc to prevent galling during operation. Both need break in additive (lots of anti scuff stuff) during break in. The flat tappet cam is the most vulnerable part during break in. I have seen this dramatically with high spring pressure racing cams. If you didn't use the additive (from the cam MFG) and break them in with a 30 minute period of high idle (~1800). They might not last an hour. Its a crap shoot how long. If you broke them in right, then they would be the last thing in the motor to go. I used this stuff with my last flat tappet cam build. Came highly recommended from the local hot rod crowd. lucasoil.com/products/engine-oil-additives/engine-break-in-oil-additive-tb-zinc-plus Also its great for regular use. The owner splits one bottle between the two engines every change and uses Rotella T, belt and suspenders approach.  |
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Boats: 76 Chrysler Conqueror S3, 61 Larson Playmate. Outboards: 76 Chrysler 105, 70 Chrysler 70, 57 Evinrude Bigtwin 35, 80 Johnson 35 looper, 74 Chrysler 45, 67 Mercury 650SS, and others.
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #109505
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Huh, great information for these older engines - thanks! This should be a sticky someplace, like the I/O gallery or something.
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #109506
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Very good input and advice for these old engines. Thanks for your help.
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #110076
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Here is a short video of the Deluxe on the lake...
Here is another video of the kids on the tube behind the Deluxe, wore them out and burned through 15 gallons of gas in 3 hours! |
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #110078
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Looking good out there Andrew!
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Mark
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #110080
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MarkS wrote:
Thanks Mark! Finally getting to enjoy the old Deluxe. |
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #110087
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Wow, what a great couple of videos! Somebody is sure enjoying their boat.
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Great to be on board.
Rick |
Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #110089
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Andrew, looking back at page one of this thread and now this really makes it all worth it. Looks like a fun summer ahead.
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #110092
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great sound. Excellent!!
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Florida's Amphicar restoration destination
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #110311
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Two videos for your viewing pleasure. The first is the Comp 268h camshaft....
The second is the bone stock factory 327 camshaft... Here is the big difference, the 268h consumed 5 gallons per hour @ 2300 RPMS The stock cam consumed 2.5 gallons per hour @ 2300 RPMS!!! I honestly could not notice any lost in power. Idles good, come out the hole fast and strong, and pulls like hell. |
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 7 months ago #110322
That's a no brainer then Andrew, 'cause she still sounds pretty mean with the factory bumpstick! Good job sorting that out, and with gas prices going back up you'll be happier all the way around.  |
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Mark
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 6 months ago #110373
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Memorial Day Memories!!
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 5 months ago #111939
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Andrew, looks like you guys had a blast. You're really making me miss my Rogue II....can't wait to go back to Texas to get her and the CJ-5.
Speaking of Jeeps, I'm a member of the jeepforum.com and we have discussed using Rotella 15W40 ad nauseum. It truly is the best oil to use in these old engines and will provide the zinc they need. I friggin' hate the EPA. Which reminds me....I can't remember if it was Car & Driver or Road & Track, but one of those two rags did an emissions test around 1991, using a Saturn LS on unleaded gas and a fully restored 1970 LS6 Chevelle with leaded....the Chevelle burned cleaner, even with the monster 800cfm Holley 4bbl and a points distributor. I know, people not keeping their engines tuned is what led to the EPA making these rules, but I still don't like them. The boat looks great. |
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Frederic
Retired Army Guy 1969 OMC Evinrude Rogue II 210 163 original hours |
Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 5 months ago #111954
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Here I sit with three boats and never got on the water yet this year. Thanks for sharing what it's like.
4th of July is not a weekend I want to be out either, too many crazies. Fredric. I am a member of the JeepForums also but haven't been on there for over a year. Had a '98 XJ with over 342k and running strong then rolled it...total  Picked up an '05 Liberty and never had any issues. Been over 1 1/2 yrs now. |
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 5 months ago #111995
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63 Sabre wrote:
Cal, if you go to the CJ section of the forums, you'll find me as "FLynes"...you can follow my clusterf*ck experience with home building and lousy contractors. Bummer about your XJ. If I were to buy a newer model, I'd like to go with an '05 TJ Rubicon...almost bought one new, but I needed something that could tow an Airstream at the time. |
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Frederic
Retired Army Guy 1969 OMC Evinrude Rogue II 210 163 original hours |
Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 3 months ago #114615
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Beautiful boat. I just walked away from one as I had no way to get it home. Trailers broken and its sitting in a field. It's in Snohomish,Wa.
seattle.craigslist.org/sno/zip/5201952722.html It's free. Thank you everyone. John |
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 3 months ago #115310
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I am pleased to report we had an awesome summer in the Deluxe. Logged more than 30 hours cruising and pulling the kids. Must had gotten a hundred comments and questions about the old girl. She is winterized and ready to begin off season improvements.
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 3 months ago #115315
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Well done Andrew!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob |
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 3 months ago #115324
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Glad you shared your experience with all us. Learned a lot. The old tri hulls are not that popular in my area but I've never had issues with them. very solid and stable, really over-engineered. Have a great off season.
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 2 months ago #115389
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A few more pictures from the summer boating fun....
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 9 years 2 months ago #115392
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Thanks for the photo's of your summer outings. Lots of memories I'm sure.
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Great to be on board.
Rick |
Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 8 years 4 months ago #125013
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We have had another great summer on the lakes with our 1964 Johnson Deluxe. This old boat is AWESOME! She romps around the lake and you can't believe the attention she gets. It's hard to ski or swim for the people coming up to take pictures and ask questions about the old girl.
Here is a link to a video from today and a few pictures. 
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 8 years 4 months ago #125363
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More pictures...
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 8 years 4 months ago #125456
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your boat still looks awesome. And nice to see you're using the heck out of it !!!
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 8 years 3 months ago #126239
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Andrew,
Incredible job on the Deluxe. Sounds so good when you open it up! I've always loved this design. Picked one up in 2009, but decided that there were too many other boat projects ahead of it. Sold it to a guy who shipped it to his brother in Denmark. The brother posted a short youtube video of his renovation. It seemed like the floor was solid when I had it, but the brother mentions he pulled 900 lbs of wet foam out when he pulled the floor. I think your motor set-up was the way to go. The original 88 hp OMC v-4 did not have enough juice for this hull. Congrats on another great summer in the gullwing! Paul |
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 8 years 3 months ago #126250
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Thank you so much for the compliments.
I have followed the rebuild of that boat on OMCBOATS.ORG for the last couple of years. The floors in these boats feel solid because you standing on the wet foam. The wood is only 3/8 on an inch thick and will be rotted away under the glass. Mikkel has done a wonderful job on his Deluxe. |
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 7 years 4 months ago #133206
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This is our third summer on the lakes around upstate SC in our awesome Johnson Deluxe. The old boat runs marvelous and turns heads everywhere we go.
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Re:1964 Johnson Deluxe Resto-Mod 6 years 5 months ago #136816
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Summer 2018!
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