TOPIC: 1960's era Span America restoration questions

Hello,

Long time listener, first time caller, yada yada yada. Many thanks in advance to anyone and everyone who is able to give me some advice on this.

I don't have a lot of experience with boats, but it's something I'm very interested in learning. A friend approached me with a learning experience - an old fiberglass hull that needs some work done to it. He was hopeful that the transom (which was cracked and exposed) would be the only major structural repair needed. So agreed and I jumped into the world of boat repair. I've bought a few books and read them over and feel semi-confident in my ability to do this.

Getting started has been my major setback, partly because of intimidation, but mostly because I don't have really any information on this boat. From the research I've done, it's a Span America, made in the late 50's, early 60's. All I've found on that company online is a few brochures. This is a problem for me because looking at the boat, it doesn't appear to have the structural build as most boats described in books.

Please see the attached pictures. For one thing, most people seem to agree boats made in this era you can pretty much count on floor/stringer rot. However, looking at my boat, it doesn't seem to have the "open bottom with stringers below a flat floor" build. The floor of the boat is a V-shape and appears to just be the bottom of the boat. Is it possible the entire floor is just glass, with no wood involved?

Also, the front of the boat has what looks like the only enclosed space below the floor...do you guys think there's foam below there? Or empty space? I'm not sure. I guess a lot of these questions could be answered by drilling down into the floor, but I'd rather avoid that if I could.

Also, the bench seat - do you think this is a wood block glassed over? I'm not sure what to make of that either, and how it may be attached to the hull. What makes me wonder is this - you can see in the back of the boat against the back wall there's an old mount/space for a battery (I'm guessing) and maybe a fuel tank. There was exposed wood there, but it was just a half inch or one inch piece of wood that was laid on top of the floor and glassed over...not screwed in or anything.

There's obviously a lot of cosmetic issues with the boat but I'm just trying to assess the biggest problems/starting point and deal with paint questions later. Do any of you guys have insight into boat builds of this era, and what I might be looking at with the build of the hull/floor? ANY insight would be awesome. Thanks!

(I'm going to try to post pictures....if that doesn't work, here's a link to my photobucket album: s132.photobucket.com/user/SoupNazi0055/library/boat%20restoration )

SoupNazi0055,

WELCOME ABOARD.

SORRY but I've NEVER even SEEN a Span American "in the flesh", so know ZILCH about them.

yours, satx

Hello SN0055, and welcome to the crew. I like Satx, am not a Span America person but we do have some of those folks here. I am sure you will find them helpful.

Al

SN,
I am not familiar with Span America boats, but after looking at your pics it appears the boat has a balsa core floor. If you look at the sides of the boat you can see a projection of an inch or so into the boat and then the floor continues down, across, and up the other side where it goes projects back to the wall again. If the wet side of the floor does not have the same geomtry, it's probably balsa blocks used to stiffen the floor. It is fairly common on boats of that era, and it almost always rotten in a boat that has been stored outside as that one appears to have been.
Re-doing a balsa core floor is somewhat difficult if you have never done one before, but there is a number of resources in this website to help you. As far as drilling to check for construction details, any holes you drill will be minor repairs compared to some of the work other areas of the boat requires. I would drill the floor to confirm the balsa wood existence and condition.
The seat is probably hollow, built as a separate assembly and then tabbed to the floor. It's probably filled with foam blocks as is the front chamber. If the drain tube through the seat wasn't sealed well, or has been cracked by ice, the foam in the seat is probably waterlogged.
That boat will need a lot of work. It really should have the deck removed to do the transom correctly.
I'm not sure what your arrangement with your friend is, but if the floor is balsa and it's rotten, you might want to consider opting out.
I have attached a pic of another members balsa floor repair. If you search the Main Forum and the Project Forum for "balsa floor" you will find quite a bit of info.

Don

Have you checked out the Span America section in the FG Library?;
www.fiberglassics.com/library/Span_America
You can also do a "Forum Search" by typing any suject (ie:span america) into the Search box in the upper right hand corner of the screen. This will bring up all previous posts about the subject, may be of some help?

OK hear go,s iam in the middel of rebilding my 1960 span America vip runabout. yours is not one .it is a span America, it mite be a skillet. the floor on yours is 1/2 plywood and 6 inch wide. 6 of them laying side by side and fiberglassed to the floor. thay run from 1 inch under the front seat to the back of the boat under the transom. iam redoing mine and this is the point that iam at now. theres fiberglass mat layed up over the plywood and starting up the sides. if your transom is bad you floor is bad. as for the seats thay are ply wood with fiberglass layed up over them. there is flotation fome in there. to do the repairs you will have to remove the deck. this boat repair is a big job, but remember theres not many span America boats left. I looked for a long time to find a span America. back in 1960 I was 8 yr old and lived 2 blocks from the factory. any way I hope that this helps. good luck. Bob

Thanks, Bob! It's good to hear from another span owner. Also what you said appears to be the possible situation with my boat. Although I am hoping the floor is still good, even if it's unlikely. It seems to feel fine when I'm walking around in it, but I realize that is not the deciding factor. How tough has your job been, and do you think it's doable for a first timer? Any general suggestions?

Its doable for the first timer, but it takes time. read all you can on fiberglassing. on mine I cut front and rear seats out with a sawsall. the boat looks like heck. but its coming along now. I just glassed the floor in last night and this morning iam going to be glassing the transom. what state are you from? and is your boat a span America? or is it a span America made for wards? if I can help you in any way just let me know. thanks Bob

Welcome aboad!

I do not know how the Span America boats were constructed. Can't help there. But sounds as if "Badger Bob" has good advice with first hand experience in restoring on of these boats.

I have done a great deal of research into the history of Span America Boat Co. and her successor Span Boats, Inc. I have written a draft article. The history here in our library is incomplete and inaccurate. One of these days I will complete my article and get it posted here. I think most of the known brochures for those boat companies are posted in the Library.

To "Badger Bob", you lived in Fort Dodge, Iowa near the S-A factory? Or their branch in Florida or California? Or near Span Boats near Rice Lake, WI?

Andreas

Fort Dodge ia. I grew up just across the river from the main factory. there was sevral small placers around town that bilt different parts for them. I lived 2 blocks from one of them. I could look out my bed room window and see the night shift working on boats. that is till 61 or 62 when the main plant burn to the ground. and that was the end of span America in fort dodge. the main office bilding is still standing. its apartment now. now for the good stuff. today I just finshed glassing my transom. now on to the seats. thanks Bob

I am in California...let me know if that should tell me something about the boat

And I'm not sure at all whether it's a Span America or one made for wards.

Would you suggest starting with the floor, then doing the bench, and leave the transom for last (assuming they're all rotten).

SoupNazi0055,

Inasmuch as I've NOT seen a Span America boat "in the flesh", I'm tempted to say nothing whatever about this subject BUT as there are likely NO construction diagrams extant, IF it was my hull I would "brace the hull" with pipe-clamps (to keep its shape), then strip the interior of everything "removable" and start the restoration from a "bare shell".
(For whatever my opinion is worth, when the floor & its supporting "under the sole" framing "starts to go", I'm kidding myself to do any less than a complete "tear-out" and replacement of all of the wood in the transom, sole, supports & framing and any other parts that show signs of deterioration.)

just my opinion, satx

Would you suggest starting with the floor, then doing the bench, and leave the transom for last (assuming they're all rotten).

Like SATX I have no experience with the Span America boats either, but agree completely with his statement about reworking all the wood. Generally you'll want to pull all the wood making patterns when possible. Pipe clamps, pvc pipe, straps can all be used to keep the hull from flexing when apart. Then to replace the transom first, as it sometimes sticks down below floor level. Just my two cents, hope it helps.

on mine I cut a small hole in the floor to see how it was. and it was rotten. like wet paper. I went and removed the seat and then the floor.( I thought that the transom was ok till I removed the deck) the floor is part of the structer of the boat. as of today june 2 I have the floor in and the transom just about glssed in. looking to mabe have the seats in by this weekend. you cant put in the floor and not do the transom. ( floor runs under the transom) by the time you removed the floor- seats-transom you have a sad looking boat. but don't dispare. replace it one pice at a time and in a couple of weeks it will start to look very good. best of luck to you. Bob

Bob, Do you still reside in Fort Dodge? I grew up in Humboldt and my folks had a cottage at Twin Lakes, so I was very familiar with Span America. We had a 1960 16' Contessa Hardtop Glass Craft built in Humboldt and that plant also burned and closed. I now live up in Arnolds Park. I would like to see your project. Did they do a lot of their catalog photos on the Des Moines River in Fort Dodge?

Yes, I agree, some pictures of your project would be awesome!

Also, a question about rot: If I get into the deck/transom, is it possible that the wood could be rotten, but not wet? In our area of CA, it gets over 100, and I am wondering if it's possible that the wood could be rotten, but have dried out because the amount of heat we have. If that's possible, how can you tell if it's rotten?

SoupNazi0055,

YOU BET. = It CAN be dry AND rotten.

yours, satx

Hornet iam 5mi north of FD. we had a Cessna at the humboldt for 20yr,s I realy don't know where the photos were taken. iam not to computer savy but as soon as one of my kids stop buy ill have them put someting up on the board. as for dry rot yes it can happen. the plywood under the rear seat was not glassted over. any water that did not make it through the drain tube just got soaked up in to the bottom of the boat and just set in the wood wating to rot.( for 60 yr,s) I hope that this info helps some one. ill git some picture up soon. thanks Bob

Another question -- If I'm to assume that the floor is just 1/2 inch of plywood glassed on the top like you said (which I plan to confirm by drilling through the bottom of the boat), then what's the best way to remove the fiberglass deck? It's pretty thin and I'm concerned about cutting into the hull. What kind of tool would you suggest, and how do I keep from cutting into the hull?

I used a hand haled grinder with a thin cutoff blade. I cut a 2in by 2in hole in the floor between the front and rear seats just to the right of the keel. that way if the wood is not bad you can reglass it in ez. then I cut as close to the edge of wood as possible. going layer by layer. then slip a screw driver under and pry very carefuly. now iam going out to work on the boat. thanks Bob

do you think one of those multipurpose dremels would work?

The oscillating multi-tool is the way many of us go, they're pretty cheap at Harbor Freight or Northern Tool....less dust than a grinder but pretty slow going. (Just have to be carefull about how deep you're cutting and at what angle!)

Some of the gang have good luck doing it "manually" with a hammer and chisel, prybar, whatever you have to work with. MUCH less dust this way, but I think it would be a bear to get started if the floor or tabbing wasn't de-laminating. Everyone has to find the method that works best for them.