TOPIC: ACBS is creating a new non-wood outboard class!

It's all happening - right now!

ACBS is creating new non-wood outboard boat judging guidelines and scoring sheet, along with revising the existing non-wood inboard (includes I/Os) judging guidelines and scoring sheet. They are also revising the overall rules for judging all boats to make non-wood boats, such as fiberglass and aluminum, specifically spelled out as types of boats and be full member classes in all their various definitions. This is huge!

I had volunteered to the international (HQ) ACBS this past winter to review any new drafts the Judging Committee might produce, and lo and behold, they took me up on my offer this week! I've already submitted my suggested changes - just a few tweaks. They also sent the drafts to a number of non-wood boat marque clubs and others for review and comment. Once they get all the comments and suggestions back, the Judging Committee will compile the suggestions into final documents to be voted on by the ACBS Board later this year. They are also considering having the Early Contemporary Class (1976-1989) include non-wood boats for the first time. I'm not going into details, but suffice it to say the proposals are all very consistent with all the other ACBS judging guidelines and scoring sheets already out there. I really liked the wording in the drafts - they are definitely on the right path.

It's all happening much faster than I thought it would, and I can see in the next few years that there will be a lot more nice colorful fiberglass and shiny aluminum mixed in with all the beautiful mahogany at ACBS shows. I've always said it's best to just keep showing up, and I've done that by attending local ACBS chapter meetings, plus send emails, all winter, and it's working. As you can see below, I also don't own a big, rare, and expensive boat - just a typical small family fiberglass runabout from the '60s that was produced by the 1000's.

ACBS clearly recognizes that to grow the club, they have to be more inclusive toward fiberglass and aluminum outboards. The ACBS chapter poll they did this past winter also clearly shows that. There are just way too many old outboard boats out there to ignore, and it's often a much less expensive route into the hobby when compared to other craft. In my opinion, old outboard boats are great looking and have a lot of wonderful history to tell. Heck, instead of hiding the motor under a wood box, an outboard hangs off the transom, easy for all to see, and has its own unique styling story to tell as well.

It's all good!

Thanks for the update Dave, that IS great news. And THANK YOU for your efforts and involvement in making these changes happen. I know it's still a long row to hoe, but at very least it's a major step in the right direction IMHO.

davnau6345 I take exception to your statementabove that CBC-ACBS does not allow and give awards to non-wood boats.

Well If they do not want to die a long death I don't see how they can continue to grow seeing that not all that many boats are being made just from wood anymore. And Fiberglass and aluminum boats are definitely old enough to be considered old. There are thing that you just can't make of wood that fiberglass excels at. STYLE. Just my opinion. I like them all.

davnau6345 - You note:

ACBS is creating new non-wood outboard boat judging guidelines and scoring sheet, along with revising the existing non-wood inboard (includes I/Os) judging guidelines and scoring sheet. They are also revising the overall rules for judging all boats to make non-wood boats, such as fiberglass and aluminum, specifically spelled out as types of boats and be full member classes in all their various definitions. This is huge!

I have owned both wood and fiberglass made classic boats, and have been a member of the ACBS for many years. You don't even have to own a classic boat to be a member of the ACBS. So I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to "full member classes" in the ACBS?

Has something changed at ACBS HQ that I'm not aware of in terms of member classification, or are non-wood owners not considered to be "full members" any more?

seabuddy wrote:

davnau6345 I take exception to your statement above that CBC-ACBS does not allow and give awards to non-wood boats.

Chris, I have re-read Dave's post three times looking for those statements - and I just don't see it written there. There is no mention of the CBC ACBS, nor any statement that awards are not given to non-wooden boats. His post pertains to the (possible) adding of more specific classes for judging the "non-wooden" classes, not the exclusion of anyone's participation. Your home chapter (CBC) obviously has the right idea, and should be commended for it IMHO.

Duke, thank you for your input - but please see above. Dave's post is about the (possible) inclusion of new classes and judging guidelines for ACBS shows, I don't see where he mentions anything has "changed" about membership qualifications, etc.

No one here is throwing rocks at ACBS, quite the contrary! Several members here are making great efforts to join forces between the ranks, not make the gap wider. While some chapters are already on board with the proper attitude, National ACBS HQ is making strong efforts to bring the entire organization into the 21st century.

Please don't bash Dave for reporting on progress being made to bring change to the classic boating and boat shows, a positive attitude from BOTH SIDES will be essential to making changes happen. Please don't "read between the lines" on something that isn't written, or argue verbage that might have been written more clearly. I know it's not going to happen overnight, but I think we're all supposed to be on the same team in the end.

Just my personal two cents worth, hoping for smoother waters ahead!

I'll try to clarify.

Right now, there is no class for non-wood outboard boats in the ACBS Judging System, and that is what I was trying to get added.

Seabuddy, lots of non-wood outboard awards have been given over the years, but if there are not clear published guidelines and scoring sheets for this specific class of boat, it makes the judging job harder.

Now I know not everyone likes or cares about judging, and that's OK. But it's an interest of mine and others. I'm just trying to get a specific non-wood outboard boat class added, and right now, it does not exist, at least per the International ACBS Judging System, Guidelines, and Scoring Sheets.

Now ACBS people I have met have been most gracious and encouraging to me, and have kept saying changes are coming. Also, not all the chapters use the International ACBS Judging System for judging boats and have developed their own, or use a modified version, or maybe follow it to the letter, or perhaps skip judging altogether. However, the International ACBS Judging System is usually a starting point.

Duke, by "full member", I was not referring to people, but boats for judging classification purposes, and I'm trying to get this new class added so it's up there with all the wood boat classes that already exist. While the ACBS mission statement does not refer to materials used to build the boat, the Judging System does. With the proposed changes, there will be published Judging Guidelines and Scoring Sheets specifically for non-wood outboard boats.

It will perhaps encourage new members to join, knowing that their fiberglass or aluminum boat could be easily judged with specific published rules and regulations for that type of boat, if they so choose. It just expands options, and I think makes it a win-win for everyone because, by far, there are more old outboard fiberglass and aluminum boats out there than there are in all the existing ACBS judging classes put together, and it's looking like this new class addition will happen this year.

It should result in more ACBS members to talk about boats with, more shows, more activities, and thus more fun. And in my mind, that's what it's all about - expanding the hobby, and thus meeting new enthusiasts and having more fun.

How many ACBS Boat Shows have you attended? I still think you are saying by your words for fiberglass and outboard boats not to attend any ACBS events until your "fix" is in place. Therefore CBV-ACBS should close down their shows for 2014. And, it is being said right when all the shows happen.

That is my point.

I do not agree that we are not awarding fiberglass and Outboards, and I posted a story that is directly opposite the thrust of your post about doing so an hour or so before you blasted all 56 chapters of ACBS with your post.

Again, I simply ask you how many boat Shows have you attended, say in the last five years.

Thanks for the clarification Dave & Mark.

I applaud you Dave for what you are trying do with ACBS HQ and for the offering to help with the committee. This is certainly a positive step in the right direction in terms of getting HQ to appreciate (and accept) the fiberglass side of the hobby - both the boats and the owners.

In my experience traveling around to classic boat shows for many years, the local ACBS chapters (and non ACBS event organizers) have always been receptive to non-wood boats at their shows & events. It's the ACBS HQ that has to get their heads out of the sand on this issue. Hopefully that will happen in the near future.

Duke, I guess you are joining the "I will not go to any ACBS Events this year" group, based on the subject of this post. OK, the 56 clubs will go out of business and close their doors for this year. Thanks guys.

Wow Chris,....I don't think I have ever heard you be so upset about an issue as you are on this?

I really don't have a "dog in this fight" as all of you here have much more experience with the ACBS than me. However, I did tell Chris how I was treated by an ACBS "Official" at the Mt. Dora Show a few years back when he looked at my pristine 1960 G-3! I was not there for ACBS "judging", he was just walking around and pretty much insulted me for having a new engine on my 1960 G-3! I didn't like it and I told him so!

I am sure there are "good and bad" ACBS Chapters all across the U.S. and Chris I know you speak highly of your chapter up there
in the Chesapeake Area.

Maybe things will change in some of the worse ones, maybe not.
I do agree that fiberglass should be more recognized though.

.. I agree with MARK above that it is difficult to read Apples & Oranges in the same topic..Having a very low ACBS member # back in the mid 80's ,our N Y Chapter had Award Plaques for a " SPECIAL " Class. I am looking at one hanging on my wall at the moment, for one of my Outboard boats...If a few Sailboats, O/B, others etc wanted to display , they were in the miscellanous or SPECIAL class , Plaque engraved ahead of time.....

JUDGING, I did some for ACBS as well as Corvettes in car club,, at that time ACBS had Five catagories of 20 pts each , three extra points for Documentation, / factory brochures, factory letters, sderial # codes, etc to prove what you owned...... ENGINES were one catagory & like John mentioned above if a inboard runabout had a newer re-power some points were deducted , versus the original engine or same year engine on display.. Its not like rocket science to pick the CREAM of the Crop" & award a prize for exhibitors..Owners want to be rewarded for highest level of "Orginality" . We owned a one owner, super original CHris that had Optional Chrysler GREEN engine..Factory letter mailed to us about this option.. Thus getting more "Documentation pts."More common for that year was the Blue Chris Craft engine" ........ Spectators come & Pay at shows to view more correct boats & assist them in a more correct restoration project that they may be workin on. !

Like mentioned above, BUT maybe not a wise choice going forward is that each of the 56 Chapters can run their clubhouse or "BackYard how they feel...When members send in the yearly dues , at least Half goes to the Parent HQ's ,sooooo there should be some overall common mission statement..

Why do we have to change what has worked since about 1976? Should this board change to an orange background because it might suit a non-registered or participating person?

Chris,

I did not write the proposed changes, the International ACBS Judging Committee did. Maybe you should contact them if you want to know their thinking for proposing a new class to be called "Non-Wood Outboard Boats". I'm just excited that they did write new guidelines and scoring sheets and are proposing this new class.

I'm also not the only person to ever consider this. Indeed, I found the following at:

www.acbs.org/rudder/oldrudder/Rudder/Spring04/FiberglassBoats.html

This article was written by the then International ACBS President, Jeff Stebbins, in 2004! So, this debate has been going on long before I ever joined (November, 2013), and it has nothing to do with awards or "closing" 56 chapters or staying home and not going to shows that, in any case, I have never suggested or written about.

It has to do with recognizing that fiberglass and aluminum boats now now old enough to be in the classic category (up to 1968 in 2004, now up to 1975 in 2014) and that to expand the hobby and the club, fiberglass and aluminum boats in general need to be embraced more. It's a fact, that at this instant, as published on the member side of the International ACBS website, there is no class for a non-wood outboard boats, and those guidelines are primarily what my local North Coast Ohio (NCO) chapter uses, with a few minor modifications. I'm not real worried about what other chapters do (at least not yet), because I don't belong to those chapters and I'm just trying to find my way around my local chapter plus the International ACBS as a whole. With 56 chapters, that's way more than I can handle for something that's supposed to be a fun hobby.

So, back in 2004, Mr. Stebbins writes:

ACBS International has never excluded fiberglass or any other material for that matter. If you review the Mission and Vision Statements there is no mention of wood, fiberglass, aluminum or the combination of any material. This Organization celebrates an era within which we define Historic, Antique or Classic boats by year not material. Would we ever exclude a turn of the century Mullins because it’s made from stamped steel? The judging criteria have always included a non-wood boat classification regardless of year or boat type. I have asked the judging committee to be more specific by generating a fiberglass-only judging sheet.

In our strategic and long-term planning session last month we reviewed specific steps to embrace owners of fiberglass boats and all non-wood materials up to the year 1968 and encourage them to become members. This, of course, may upset those who think wood is the only suitable material for ACBS members’ boats. Our Founders didn’t think so when this organization was first established. When the Vision and Mission Statements were created and our Founders chartered our Constitution, they didn't exclude non-wood boats. All ACBS chapters are encouraged to accept and include fiberglass boats at their ACBS sanctioned shows. In addition, we state in our long-range plan that like-kind boating organizations’ members will be encouraged to participate and join our organization regardless of the make or material of their boats.

However, no fiberglass-only sheet (with guidelines) was ever developed, adopted and and published, as far as I can tell, by the International ACBS Judging Committee. Maybe they did exist at one time before I joined in November, 2013. Others can chime in on that. Guidelines and a scoring sheet have been developed, adopted, and published for non-wood inboards, but nothing so far non-wood outboards. Now, such are being developed and proposed, and not only do I think it's a good idea, but others in the club think so too.

Also, the chapter executive poll done this past winter and spring shows that chapter executives want the club to be more inclusive of fiberglass, specifically:

Furthermore, 66% of respondents do not feel that ACBS has done enough to encourage fiberglass participation within the organization

One little piece to help encourage participation is now getting rectified, I hope, because there are lots of vintage fiberglass and aluminum outboard-powered boats out there. In any case, no matter what gets done and when it gets done, I'm going to keep showing up.

However, I'm finding I may be a little lonely. For the NCO chapter Portage Lakes judged shows for the last three years, I found the following is the count for non-wood outboards:

2011 - 2 boats
2012 - 3 boats
2013 - 4 boats

It will be my first show, so yes, I'm very definitely a newbie, but pictures of all boats from the NCO shows are published at a public website, so I just looked and counted them up to see what the history was. But, it's trending in the right direction and I'm hoping we get at least 6-8 to show up this year, and I hope the numbers continue to grow over time. That would be great! (There are 55 slip slots for boats and they are normally all spoken for, with the overflow on land on trailers nearby. Usually, a total of around 60 boats have shown up for the past several years.)

In any case Chris, I hope you have a great 2014 season, keep writing good articles like the one you just did for PropTalk about the award-winning red Dorsett cruiser "Sunburn", and as the president for my local AOMCI chapter likes to say: "Keep the blue smoke flowing!".

Looks like good news to me ?
But like always….. It’s always about the judging ! And that is where all of the fighting starts.
I think I finally realized it ? It not really the wood vs. glass thing…. It’s the Ego thing.
And personally, the only people that will be upset with any of this, are the glory hounds ?
If the masses feel that new categories are the way to go ? Then so be it.
I’d still just pay for a non-judged entry, and just enjoy my time at the show.
Honestly, I do not care if agree with me or not ? so don’t bash me for my opinion.
I’m just pointing out where the fights always start…

Besides, I’d rather see a variety of boats at shows, not just wood, and if new classes will draw more boats ?
More power to them !

My only concern ? Being on the docking crew for some years at shows ?
Where do they expect to put all of these new show boats ? The marinas fill up fast on boat show morning.
And I can’t tell you how often, the complaints came, because boat owners had to tie off on a rope, because all of the slips were full.
Just a thought ? But I guess this will be the Chapter’s show day problem ?

So let's just go boating and have some fun !!!!

Well I've stayed out of this until now. Lots of good points here and well said Chuck. For me, look everyone has an opinion and we should respect that opinion, not bash someone just because you don't like the opinion. The best part of this site is the people here and how they love their hobby and want to help anyone who wants to join or needs help. Some like judging some don't, fine nothing wrong with that. Attend how you want to attend and just have fun, enjoy the comradery with fellow boaters who have the same passion.

Now enough on this and lets get on to de-winterizing out boats and get out there and have FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob