TOPIC: Judging at an ACBS Show - FiberGlassics and Outboards

** This thread discusses the content article: Judging at an ACBS Show - FiberGlassics and Outboards **

Nice article, Dave! We need more stories like this. If anyone would like to contribute, please contact us.

Ken

Hi Dave,
Glad you enjoyed your experience! It's actually a lot harder than it looks, eh?
I have been a judge at various ACBS shows in the 1000 Islands and Toronto Chapter of ACBS for going on 15 years. My background is in outboard motors, so I am often teamed with the crew that covers outboard boats, although I've judged everything from non-power smallcraft to 50-foot cruisers! I enjoy it and I agree that chatting with the owners is the best part of the job.
I had some minor input into the judging format when they first added a separate sheet for non-wood craft a few years ago. It still needs work, but it is improving. Change takes time. They are open to suggestions and if you direct your own thoughts and concerns to the powers that be, they will consider them. The gentleman I was consulting with has passed away, so I don't know who's on the current judging committee.
- Scott

my mantaray has always been judged in the "classic glass preserved category" even though the paint and upholstery are a different color. as long as the hull,floor,steering,hardware,gauges and transom are original. my chapter doesn't consider new paint restored. now on wood you can have up to 65% of the planking replaced and still fall in the preserved category.
deductions they hit me on is dirty lower unit (outboard), gelcoat cracks,bent mirror base, and most recently my new mercontrol and console, which aren't original. i've consistently scored between 93 and 96 points. the first year i got 98 points but that was before the gelcoat cracks. ron

great article dave,for those that dont know,the 64 custom craft sunray (5th pic down,teal and white)is our boat that was up for "best of show restored",we lost to the woodie outboard that won best of show preserved last year.
we only lost points on both boat and motor for not being the original color,and that was great by us.
we did get 1st for "outboard boat and motor" and are very,very happy for it.congrats to ed gordon and my mom.
dave and the other 2 judges were great to us,and i think judged our fiberglassic just like the woodies,with no discrimination for not being wood.
i think a catagory for custom boats would be nice,like in car shows.but thats just my opinion,that and a buck will get you a cup of coffee,lol.john

I've often thought..... when I get a boat done ?... if I'd have it judged ?
My thinking is: the first time it's shown: Yes, only because I'd like to know what kind of restore job I did in the eyes of a judge.

I plan on modifying the crap out of my fiber-wreck because there isn't a thing I can do to make it look any worse than it already does. So I'm going to do what I want to do to it, and sit back to see what a judge says ? I've never been a glory hound, but I'd to see a judge scratch his/or her head, and think ? How do I judge that ? Besides.... I was a C student in high school, so anything better is a bonus !!!! Anything worse ? is Same old... same old !

I also had the honor of judging here at the New England Cahpter. There is only one catagory for vintage glass, ie "non-wood" as the catagory is called. There is also an outboard catagory and this tends to get mixed between glass and wood, at least in our chapter.
I find that most of the judges are far more versed in wood than glass. When restoring a project I try and find old magazines literature brochures etc. to establish what would have been original, also my memory as most boats I do were ones I wanted and memorized as a kid. Also I find boats our family had so I have photos. Bring along ANY bit of info you have to help the judges.
It is interesting to note the big deductions in score for interior details. Also, motors need to be within a few years of the boat for outboards or there is a big deduct.
I think it is worth having your boat judged, it helps inspire true restorations which are nice to document how things reallly were done. It may be someone walking the dock that gets inspired ya never know.
I think the ACBS should have a few catagories for vintage glass now that they are becoming more prevalent. Could be by motor configuration I/O inboard and outboard. Also, I think Best restored and best preserved would be helpful. With a few determinations on Gel coat vs paint scoring.
Anyways congrats on your boat doing well at the show, it's a beauty. I generally only show for judging the year I complete on sucessive showings I don't get judged to leave room for newer entries to be judged. Keep in mind there can be many first or second places, it's based on points. But only one best of show.
Randy

Great discussion here and I have some opinions like everyone else. We put on a show every summer and I have to admit that I really tried to make fiberglassic boats included in our show. We had alot of the older woody folks really balk at that topic ten years ago when we brought it up. We kept fighting and inviting everyone and tried to be inclusive to all. It was a team effort from our show staff and club. It was fun to see the opinions change to pro glass in the shows. Some of the biggest nay-sayers have turned to be big supporters.
We also took the judging out of the show and went to participation awards for all, Peoples choice for each category. This has brought alot of new boats to our show and we even added a "mishap" award to a deserving attendee!
I think we all appreciate how neat it is to see authentic stock restorations, but the reality of that is alot of money. I think with the economy, the cost of attending shows and the scarcity of alot of these items, restoration is an expensively prohibitive endeavor. I for one love to see more people exposed and active in our hobby. I stand on the docks and watch peoples reactions to all of the boats. It is so fun to see them react to all of hte different boats.
As I may have digressed, being a judge is very tough, and sometimes we need to bring materials that explain why we have our boats finished as we do and help educate the judges to make the fair judgements.

Excellent Article Dave.

Here in the Midwest, there was quite a bit of backlash from judging when I first went to a Show (Fiberglassics in Rockford 2001). Two Mississippi River Shows became very popular because they intentionally adopted a "No Judging" policy. In fact, the Quincy Show was so consistently great and well-attended that the local ACBS Chapter has endorsed the Show. I've interviewed owners for my Video Series from both judging and non-judging displays. I sort of see it as how much love, thought and work went into the thing, whether it's pristine or funky.

Exception:"Don't modify a really rare collectible or antique - ever!"

I tried to figure out a precedent for paint and coloration on Gator trailers that I posted here several years ago. I am curious if ACBS has any guidelines about using polyurethane on trailers, etc.
And if not, should they? The old-timers all say that the woodies were never as shiny as they are now and I know the trailers sure weren't. So, this whole "original" thing is pretty elusive.

My actual expertise is houses. We did preservation, restoration, remodeling and tried to avoid "REMUDDELING" Our approach was to determine if preservation was possible, cost effective - if not, is restoration possible, cost effective - if not, remodel. Never remuddel, unless it's for entertainment purposes and never with anything collectible.

We've rescued several nice boats from hot rodders who made joke boats out of finned glassics. They just don't get that any of the glassics are 100 to 1000 times more rare than a 57 Chevy.

bob,i dont know if your talking about our boat and how we did it,quote "We've rescued several nice boats from hot rodders who made joke boats out of finned glassics"unquote.
but when we got this boat from a corn field it was pretty much junk,the interior was compleatly shot,after about 3 to 4 years of work and alot of ed's money,i did it the way we wanted,it was all white so i just made the original lines of the boat stand out.
if we didnt fix up this boat it would be in a junkyard by now,but it now seems to be one of the favotite boats to the folks at the shows.
repectfully john,p.s.here it is originally

john, i highly doubt that he was referring to "way back when". if he was he might as well throw in my joke boat too. we fixed em up in a way that was appealing to us, and in the end isn't that all that counts. ron

No, talking about destroying boats to make joke displays at car shows. Like my friend who cut the bottom off of a Red Fish to mount it on a car chassis. Everyone knows we do the best you can with what you find. I just spelled out a set of precepts. I'll carve them in stone for a fee.

ok bob ,my apoligies to you then.
thats the problem with the written word,you sometimes cant tell how things are meant.again i apoligize,john

Ironic that in my questioning of "judging" that I should be accused of being judgemental. Very bizzare.

While my knowledge of boating is tiny outside of my documentary work, my knowledge of antiques and collecting spans a rather long lifetime.

Really, Dave's insights into learning how the judging is handled was fascinating. Striving for excellence in preservation and restoration is great, but judging does expose the prejudices and descrimination of the various organizations doing the judging. So, how are we to continue to strive for excellence? Why.. with the open exchange of information at this, and other forums. In order for that to work, though we need to not be offensive or unnecessarily take offense.

Apology accepted. Thanks, John

Oh, and then there was the guy called Moose who was going to slice up a Surflite to make Weirdo boat. We saved that one, but later an oak tree fell on it.

sometimes even judges can make mistakes for lack of knowledge of a particular boat. the judging of glass boats is still new to the acbs and mistakes will continue to occur in the future.

Dave , Good to hear that ACBS includes Fiberglass boats. In the ACBS Directory they never recognize Fiberglass. Its all about the wood boats. I know they want to increase membership but do not address fiberglass nor do they extend the age of wood or fiberglass boats in what's a classic or antique. There are a ton of Fiberglass boats built in the 60's ,70's and 80's that can be bought for little money the biggest cost would be repowering with a modern engine. Classic glass boats are very cost friendly less than a classic car or a girl friend. Not everyone wants or can afford a classic wooden boats. I should start bugging ACBS. Thank you for your article.

i joined the acbs in in 2006. my glass boat has been in the annual directory since. my chapter, the PHILADELPHIA Chapter ACBS welcomes classic glass with open arms and the members are terrific people. ron

That's GREAT I think all ACBS chapters welcome anyone who has desire to keep the boats afloat. I hope ACBS identifies a classification for FiberGlassics. I am a member of the ACBS Rocky Mountain Classics Chapter. We are just starting to have members (Me) take more interest in Fiberglass boats. Its a more affordable entry into classic boating.

One aspect of Classic Bot Judging is the Awards and cost of same. There have been years when a year dated Award was ordered and bought and no boats showed up to be Judged in that category. The Chapter has to throw that one away.

Great article. I am on the executive for the Trent Severn Antique and Classic Boat Association in Peterborough Ontario and this year we are pushing hard for new members with Classic Glass boats
In the past they have been getting a cold shoulder in Ontario but lets face it they are up to 60 years old. Last year myself and club member Ronny of Ronnys Marine did a Glass boat show with classes
50s and 60s but we had a large showing of 70s Performance Boat.Now for this years July 18th show at RPM we have 50s and older Wood and Glass,60s, 70s -80s and Hot Boats
Regardless what they are made of the public love to see these unique boats of our past that we all enjoyed PS just on final restoration of my Checkmate MX13
Murray

Nice Work ,the boat looks amazing
It would be hard to not give this first Place

Welcome aboard Murray, glad to have you join us. Wishing you and Ronny much luck up there, looks like you're doing a fine job introducing the Glassics.

mparnell,

WELCOME ABOARD.

yours, satx

Great news I have had a similar response at the shows I have had my 1977 SeaRay Its the same story I remember when my Dad Grandpa Uncle or Neighbor had one just like it. ACBS made the right move to recognize these boats. No matter what condition they are always likes do by attendes.