TOPIC: How the mighty have fallen.

As many of you may recall my mentioning I run a machine shop. We see all kinds of stuff to fix. This week a pontoon came in with a "Mercury" on it. The owner had nothing but problems with it over the last month. The current problem was that the head bolts had stripped out of the block. The block was an extremely soft aluminum. Upon further examination, it turns out the power head is made by Yamaha. I pretty much despise all things Asian when it comes to machinery, so I was very disappointed to discover there really is no more Mercury. Sad.

Save your historic Mercs. They are the only ones worth keeping.

jepstr67,

AGREED! - as i had a cousin on the US Indianapolis, i'm 'Not too fonda' things Nipponese.

yours, satx

I hope he was among the few survivors. Tragic loss after what her last mission had been to the service of our country. My hats off. I think all small outboards are Japanese
now. Honda, Tohatsu and Yamaha.

Well the Japanese have very good manufacturing and engineering, and have for a long time. I currently drive two Subarus and one Tundra. It will be a long time before someone can convince me to buy an American car again.
That being said, I love the mid 70's Evinrudes. I really have no use for a 4 stroke engine, and almost bought an Etec but they apparently are made in China?
Until our problems here are fixed, no one in his right mind would start manufacturing here on a large scale. We have ourselves to blame.
There are small Evinrudes again now, but I am not sure where they are actually made.

Edited, the small Evinrudes are apparently Tohatsu's.
iboats has a good discussion on them.
I read that the 25 and 30 were Chinese made/assembled (moving back to WI) and 40Hp and up are made in Wisconsin.

All Evinrude E-tecs are made in Wisconsin, and always have been.

The Evinrude 3.5 to 15 HP 4 strokes are indeed make by Tahotsu in Japan and except for the color and the shift handle VS Mercury's twist grip shift they are identical the to the small Mercs from 2007 amd later.

Yamaha quit making engines for Mercury after a law suit that was settled in late 06 or early 07. The 30 & smaller Mercs come from Tahotsu. The 40, 50 & 60 4 strokes from China. I am not certain of the 75 thru 150 4 strokes. The Verado and the Optimax come from WI.

The MerCruisers are now made in WI after a 35 or so year run in Stillwater, OK. The Stillwater plant was shut down last year after Mercury/Brunswick held the IAM, Fond Du Lac county, the State of WI and the State of OK hostage for wage cuts and other concessions.

I would hold their corporate "hardballing" against them before I would hold their overseas manufacturing against them. Any defects in quality will eventually cost them money in customer ill will. Their much bigger issue is engine availability. A week or two for an E-Tec (and some times even sooner) sometimes months for an overseas Merc 4 stroke.

jim18611865 wrote:

I currently drive two Subarus and one Tundra. It will be a long time before someone can convince me to buy an American car again. ....


We have ourselves to blame.

"We" sure do...

I drive a Jeep Patriot. It is the most efficient, trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. 4x4, 30MPG. High 80s% American made content. Assembled in Illinois. Best of all, the profit stays in the USA and doesn't go to Tokyo like when people buy an "American made" Toyota.

I had an Isuzu. I was not a bad vehicle for a four year old truck if you looked past no being able to drive it on rainy days, being able to throw a mean tomcat through the bed from one side to another, the fact that the wires had a tendency to smoke and burn under the dash and that it almost broke in half before I got it home one day from the boxed frame being gone from rust. Funny truck, if you wanted to drive it in the snow you had to get it going like a scooter. That was fun, brought back memories of when I was a kid. You had to like your passenger because going for the gear shift without warning might get you smacked on the side of the head. I ended the relationship one day after the wires caught fire for the third time under the dash. On the way home I traded it for a Ranger. Japanese quality all right. I think their still sore about WWII, why else would they sell such a pile of junk. The dealer never could find the reason for the rain keeping it from running. That was a neat quality, going down the freeway at 20 mph but getting 30 mpg. That is how I feel about jap cars and trucks. Never had another.

jepstr67; robert-lorigan,

fwiw, the BEST vehicle that i've ever owned (and i've had literally a 100 or so in 50years) is the 1991 Ford F-250, 7.3L Diesel by IH, that i have now.- the last time it was serviced at 165K, it was in specs for a new engine.

PERSONAL TO Robert: my 2nd cousin, Robby S. S________, went into the water, when the Indy went down, as a 17.5YO sailor & came out of the water OLD. - he lived, in poor health, until 1962 & my childhood was filled with stories of circling sharks attacking, drowned sailors, burning sun, thirst, burning oil on the water & the HORROR that he relived, frequently & told us boys about (when out on the creek-bank.)

PERSONAL to jepstr67: i'd like to have a restored MK800 Dockbuster on a restored 16' Yellowjacket again!

yours, satx

He will be in my prayers tonight. God it must have been horrible. As a side note I ran F-150's for my business and never even thought about getting rid of them until they hit 300,000. They gave the best cosp per mile than both the chevy, and dodge I had and even that thrifty Izulusolu or what ever the hell they called it because I had to constantly dump money into it. I had several F-150's and I put about 50,000 on a year. In my records I have proof in the pudding.

robert-lorigan,

IF you want to KNOW what the boys suffered, get/read:
ALL THE DROWNED SAILORS by Raymond B Lech
and/or
ABANDON SHIP by Richard Newcomb & Peter Maas

I have alway thought that those poor boys, who went into the water, have to go to The Happy Hunting Grounds, as they ALL served their time in Hell. = strangely enough, Robert Shaw's character in the original JAWS described what Robby said REALLY happened, almost to a T. = peculiar, eh? - i've wondered if Shaw was ON The Indy or if he talked to someone who WAS, before playing that part.

ONE ANECDOTE: Robby told us boys one time, that a "real good friend of mine"(his) named Ellis, tied himself to some sort of metal tank/container that would float (the way that he described it, was about 8-10 gallon capacity i would guess) & Robby said he was doing "fine" until he & the container "bobbed a couple of times like a cork" & then "started moving away from the group with Ellis screaming" & then the container stopped & "there wasn't any more Ellis to see".= a shark, i would guess, took him.

yours, satx

I have had striped bolts on outboards before and I'm not too sure about yamaha's quality so thats unfortunate to hear.

But it's really pretty much common knowledge that most foreign companies make almost better everything today.

Maybe in the 50's the US made good stuff , but today , nah not anymore.

What's the problem with US made ?
I have never owned a foreign car , and never will ,
Sure we hade a slump in the 80,s but the car we are turning out now are better than ever.
The foreign stuff is ok , but not superior by any means .

Well keeping in mind every computer you've ever used in your life wasn't built in the us , including the one in every american car.... and the one you are currently reading this with.

But anyway.

Coming from a person who currently owns 5 cars , and has owned dozens before, american cars just dont seem to be built for the long haul. When they get old , their faults are more cripling to the entire vehicle.

I've owned both cheverolets and fords. Don't get me wrong , I like american cars. You can LIKE something even though it's bad.

But just because you like something doesn't make it good.

Case and point , look on any car auction or sales site , and sort by highest millage first. See the ratio of american cars vs foreign.

I have read both books and own Abandon Ship. We have a Focus now but I've had LTD, Lincoln Town Cars and all have had over 300,000 when I gave them to my kids to drive.

Endurance wise, I will put my Jeep in line sixes, either the 226 flat head in the Willys wagon, or the 258 in the CJ8/Scrambler, up against any engine ever made or ever will be, and I will win. There is no engine better than a Jeep straight six.

Mandatory boat content ....the 226 Continental used by Jeep is also the Gray Marine engine. BTW, our 1939 Larson with the Gray is still running perfectly as well. Like an old Timex...they take a licking and keep on ticking.

The problem we face with American made products isn't that we can't make good stuff. It's just that Americans won't work for $53 a week. If you enjoy the American standard of living, you have no choice but to support it by seeking out and purchasing anything and everything you possibly can that is made here. Our way of life absolutely depends on it. (why do you think we are having so many economic problems lately....duh)

robert-lorigan,

i've owned, over the years at least a half-dozen "square" TownCars & got GREAT service from all of them. - in fact, i got "outbid" on a 1988 maroon Bill Blass TC last week with 59,000 miles last week. - it belonged to a local teacher from new till he passed away & was his "Sunday go to meeting car".

fwiw, i thought both books did a good job of explaining "WET HELL in the 1945 mid-Pacific".

yours, satx

jepstr67,

AGREED. - i had that same engine in an old NASH AMBASSADOR, when i was in High School. = it was UNSTOPPABLE!
(the Nash was a "popular item" to borrow for weekend dates, as the seats made-down into a double bed.- Several marriages in NE TX happened as a result of "good 'ole boys" first "enjoying" a "local HS honey" in that old Nash.= CHUCKLE.)

yours, satx

jepstr67 wrote:

Endurance wise, I will put my Jeep in line sixes, either the 226 flat head in the Willys wagon, or the 258 in the CJ8/Scrambler, up against any engine ever made or ever will be, and I will win. There is no engine better than a Jeep straight six.

Mandatory boat content ....the 226 Continental used by Jeep is also the Gray Marine engine. BTW, our 1939 Larson with the Gray is still running perfectly as well. Like an old Timex...they take a licking and keep on ticking.

The problem we face with American made products isn't that we can't make good stuff. It's just that Americans won't work for $53 a week. If you enjoy the American standard of living, you have no choice but to support it by seeking out and purchasing anything and everything you possibly can that is made here. Our way of life absolutely depends on it. (why do you think we are having so many economic problems lately....duh)

Amen to that ! the AMC 258 its little brother the Jeep 4.0 are with out a doubt one of the toughest engines out there . My 98 4.0 Cherokee is just a tick over 180k doesnt burn one drop of oil and is just getting broken in !

I think it is interesting that Mercury was one of the first and only American manufactures to embrace the low torque, short stroke and high RPM method of developing horse power. They beat the whole world to the punch on that one.

That was the main reason I stuck with Evinrude. I don't ever like the sound of motors revving up real high. I'm more of a long stroke, high torque, Heavy fly wheel, and use gearing to get the prop spinning fast kind of person.

I'm sure Mercury got wound up in fickle customers claiming quality and performance are key, but buying a cheaper motor when the cash was on the barrel head. Lot's of consumers talk big until it comes time to pay.

I suppose this really isn't the place nor the demographic to explain how and why other countries are capable of doing everything better then the US. It really would go in one ear and out the other. My mistake.

Yea.....your mistake !!!!!
Thats the only thing I agree with you on .

emosun wrote:

I suppose this really isn't the place nor the demographic to explain how and why other countries are capable of doing everything better then the US. It really would go in one ear and out the other. My mistake.

emosun -

you've got to understand that this is the internet. not really a place to start a heated debate/argument of any kind. and foreign vs. domestic is almost as bad as politics. everyone has a strong opinion and is not likely to be swayed, regardless of what anyone says or how they say it.

That being said, it is possible to have your dissenting opinion heard and respected. on relatively delicate topics like this, coming out and making blanket statements like "all stuff made in america is bad" is NOT the way to do that. you obviously feel that foreign products are superior, but it's not nearly as simple as america = bad and everyone else = good. there are hundreds of variables to take into account for every product and situation.

if you indeed wish to make the argument, why not make a well-reasoned statement with specific examples and such? that will show exactly why you feel like you do. i doubt most folks will change their minds, but at least they'll understand where you're coming from.

I really hate to see strong feelings over a topic like this get so many feathers ruffled and folks' attention taken away from this site's focus: old boats and the folks that love them.

-Chris

My lifetime of experience has taught me what I will keep buying. It has also taught me how I will vote. Nobody here will change that. In the wake of bad feelings between friends I vote we end this thread on USA/Jap made stuff and politics. We are friends here and like a personal friend you see everyday at work, play, or anywhere we all are different and have our own likes and dislikes and have to overlook things we differ on and move on knowing we have one very important thing in common. BOATS, I like my boat, and I like my Honda outboard.

robert-lorigan wrote:

My lifetime of experience has taught me what I will keep buying. It has also taught me how I will vote. Nobody here will change that. In the wake of bad feelings between friends I vote we end this thread on USA/Jap made stuff and politics. We are friends here and like a personal friend you see everyday at work, play, or anywhere we all are different and have our own likes and dislikes and have to overlook things we differ on and move on knowing we have one very important thing in common. BOATS, I like my boat, and I like my Honda outboard.

well said. and i second that vote.