TOPIC: Rustoleum Paint question

Ok so the local NAPA has Formula 1 FH601 Generic Synthetic Enamel Hardener, can i use this with the Rustoleum Marine paint? When I asked for Enamel Hardener, they showed me the FH601 and another one but not the medium hardener as suggested in another thread.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Bob

Bob,

I'm not expert on paints, but for what it's worth, when ever I've wanted a durable paint finish - I've coughed up the loot for the good stuff. The best paints I've ever used were Dupont Nasson line. Outboard motors still looked like new 7 years after painting them. When ever I have gone with the 1 part cheap paint, I've regretted it. Lastly - paint is all about chemical compounds. Really complicated stuff that I don't have a clue how chemists figure out. All paints are designed to work with particular chemical compounds. If you add hardener to a paint that was created to be a 1 part - you might get lucky, or you might not. I'd hate to see you have to do a project twice, because the paint didn't work. Just something to ponder.

BG

I used Rustolium paint on my Falls Flyer and used "Valspar " Hardener I bought off Amazon.com Thinned with Acetone and hardener.
Worked great and I also sprayed Rustolium Clear coat over it all . You have to use the Hardener or the clear coat will blister the base .This is my flyer with Primer - Gloss White and 2 QTS of clear a Qt. of Metallac Clear than two more Qts of clear on top of that . Did not have to add anything to the Clear coat.

www.amazon.com/Valspar-018-0004625-003-Enamel-Hardener/dp/B000LNY1MY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337492935&sr=8-1

Bruce/Rick, thanks for the inputs.

I should probably clarify something, I'm painting the trailer with this. I had planned on using the Rustoleum as a topcoat for the POR 15 and their primer I just put on it. Was thinking I should probably make it nice and hard if possible, without spending an arm and a leg. The POR 15 was pretty pricey as it was but coats GREAT. I'm hoping to paint it next weekend since I have another week of 11/12 hour days, I've gotten absolutely nothing done since last weekend! I'm actually at work right now.

So is the Marine Rustoleum with hardener a good idea or use the regular Rustoleum with hardeneer or without? Will the hardener NAPA showed me work?

Bob

I painted my trailer with the regular Rustolium metal primer and their regular Sunburst yellow for the trailer - no hardener I like the Rustolium because it also comes in Rattle cans for touch up and small pieces

I would have used the hardener on the trailer but did not know about it at the time ! It makes it nice and hard - O'well that trailer will probably get wet about 6 times a summer .

to ALL,

i don't know about the rest of the members/readers BUT i think that the finish on that Falls Flyer is BEAUTIFUL. - i'll have to look at that brand for the SternCraft.

yours, satx

Absolutely gorgeous Satx, I agree! Just one question Rick, did you take the paint gun out of Melanie's hand this time? (Just kidding, you know I had to give you a hard time about that!)

I don't know about that other hardener Bob, but I feel sure it's very similar. The Valspar stuff is great, good shine/shortens drying time/ and it is tough stuff. (And they claim it works with any oil based enamel.)

Bob, A retied commander should NOT be working 12 hr days!!!!! I hate auto correct... can't abbrieviate shit!!! I'm going to go rustoleum route on my deville when i get to it.. 90+ sunny weather, golf and getting my Owens out is getting in the way........

You know how that goes ? I call her the "Pro from Dover " I do 200 hours + on body work re-placed all the wood behind the rub rail - new fiberglass - filler- sanding - filling - wiping - masking and she comes in and fires up the compressor and sprays and gets all the credit for the great paint job ! It's not fair lol She does have a knack for the spray

Waterwings wrote:

So is the Marine Rustoleum with hardener a good idea or use the regular Rustoleum with hardeneer or without? Will the hardener NAPA showed me work?

Bob

I think you could go with either the marine or the regular Rustoleum with good results. I don't believe the sun burst yellow that Rick used on the trailer was their marine paint. Unless you are painting in the next few days I would source the Valspar hardner, I KNOW it is compatible with Rustoleum. It only took a few days for Rick to receive his order through the link he provided. If your plans are to paint a.s.a.p you could mix a very small batch of the NAPA hardner & Rustoleum to see if they react.Usually you will be able tell within a few minutes if there is going to be a negative reaction. Paint the test batch on a small piece of scrap, let dry over night to be sure. My 2cents fwiw. Good luck!

Haha. Anybody can hose a boat,car,etc. As we all know it's all in the prep work and Rick has done an outstanding job and I'm happy to have had played a very,very small part. The real hero in all this is Sarah, Rick's wife.

Melanie

Rick, outstanding boat by the way, superb prep job!!!!!!!!!!!

Mark/Melanie, thanks, i have the receipt for the stuff from NAPA. Had bought it just in case. I'll try and get some of the Valspar before this weekend.

Joe, yeah you'd think so wouldn't you!?!?!!? Yeah I'm going the Valspar route with the Rustoleum.

thanks for all the inputs folks.

Bob

I used the Valspar hardener and Finish One Medium hardener from Advanced Auto Parts. Not familiar with the one you posted. I KNOW you can use either of these with Great Results. The Rustoleum Clear Coat is also some really good stuff.

MyFlamingo posted in another paint thread his formula that we used and I think it worked quite well.


"I've been using Rustoleum on boats for a while. Just recently I have discovered that that Valspar makes an Acrylic Enamal Hardener that works great in Rustoleum. My formula is 1-1/2 cups Acetone, 1/4 cup Hardener 1 Quart Rustoleum. I shoot it with a HVLP gun with a 2.0 mm tip. It goes on like a dream, dries in 4 hours and shines like the sun. Two coats and you're good to go. TIP: Want colors you can mix your own using Artist Acrylic Oil Paint. Any color in the Rainbow. Takes a little practice to get the tint you want but you can do it." MyFlamingo

Another reason I wanted to repost this is the tip about using
artist acrylic oil paint for tinting.

P.S. I edited the original post from 1/2 cup Acetone to 1-1/2cups Acetone as MyFlamingo did several post later.

You're too modest Melanie, to shoot paint jobs like you do is a work of art, IMHO. I've seen many people's attempts at this (including my own!) that pale in comparison. I think it's awesome that you help Rick and Sarah out with their projects, good on ya!

As many of us have found out the hard way, prep work is a MAJOR factor in how well the final job turns out Rick. You're obviously doing a great job with that. I'm just jealous I don't have a good friend close enough to give me a hand with shooting mine.

Bob, I don't know if you have a Tractor Supply Co. store near you, but they sell the Valspar hardener for about $15 a can (8 oz).
tsc.tractorsupply.com/search?w=valspar+hardener&searchButton.x=0&searchButton.y=0

MyFlamingo/Melanie,
Thanks, I believe I did save and print that when it was first posted but forgot to bring it with me to NAPA, but I remembered Formula 1, they just didn't have the right stuff I guess. I went to Advanced and they didn't carry any enamel hardener. I guess it changes per region as to what they'll carry.

Mark,
thanks there is a Tractorsupply around but by the time I pay for the gas and taxes it's going to cover the shipping cost so I basically break even and I don't have to leave the house. LOL I ordered the Valspar form Amazon. Hopefully it will be here in time.

Bob

Just a side note to using Valpar enamal hardener , its good stuff gives a good hard finish improves the gloss . How ever that stuff is pretty dangerous , it contains polyisocyanates and diisocyanates (im no chemist but it sure has a cyanide sound to it ) . If your going to spray the best protection is airline supply which is recommended, charcoal respirators dont catch it . A lot of people say they've sprayed that stuff for years with no problems with just a respirator and thats fine but there are horror stories about people not making it out of their garage alive after one attempt of spraying , dont mean to scare anyone , i've used the stuff myself just want to let people know to use a little caution with it .

Another paint choice. When I was restoring 1960's travel trailers I used tractor and implement paint with a emamel hardener. That used to hold up to the chapparel from giving the trailer "arizona pinstrips". Ford blue and International white matched the Shasta colors.

I used that too with great results in the past. It does get very hard.

gil_72gt-160 wrote:

Just a side note to using Valpar enamal hardener , its good stuff gives a good hard finish improves the gloss . How ever that stuff is pretty dangerous , it contains polyisocyanates and diisocyanates (im no chemist but it sure has a cyanide sound to it ) . If your going to spray the best protection is airline supply which is recommended, charcoal respirators dont catch it . A lot of people say they've sprayed that stuff for years with no problems with just a respirator and thats fine but there are horror stories about people not making it out of their garage alive after one attempt of spraying , dont mean to scare anyone , i've used the stuff myself just want to let people know to use a little caution with it .

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! If you're gunna spray this stuff, I highly recommend using a full face Respirator with the finest Cartridges. It is not something you want to be breathing.

Well crap, don't have one of those and I don't believe they are cheap. So now what? Maybe wear the respirator and wear the sand blasting hood over my head. It covers my head and shoulders, will that work?

Bob

Bob-

Though they sound similar, Cyanates and cyanide arent the same... But that's not to say they arent dangerous! They DO sound scarier than they really are. I have a background in Occupational Safety, and I will try not to get TOO in depth or technical!

You are going to be more worried about respiratory protection than covering your whole head, so FIRST make sure that the respirator cartridges you are using protect against isocyanate. Unfortunately, very few, if any, well tell you that they do. The reason for this is that the companies don't want the liability attached to telling you it's fine to use it, then having you drop dead. OSHA has decided that the appropriate protection for Iso's is supplied fresh air.

You'll be looking for a respirator with organic chemical cartridges. Also, remember that they have VERY short 'usable' lives once opened- usually around 24 hours of exposure.

Covering the eyes is important, too- as isos are absorbed through any mucous membranes. The hood is handy only because it'll keep you from getting unplanned highlights in your hair.

Spraying in a wel ventilated area is also a must, ideally a spray booth but we all know that's not going to happen for most of us. Outside is second best, at least from a ventilation standpoint.

Also- And this is VERY important, while most of the products that CONTAIN them are rather odoriferous, Isocyanates them don't actually have an odor, so you don't really know if you are being exposed. Also, the effects on your health tend to be more long term, requiring a build up over time, so you won't know right away that you've been exposed.

Of course, this doesn't apply to more acute exposures, you can get irritation, shortness of breathing, etc in a hurry with this stuff if you get exposed to enough of it.

There is a good bit of information on Isos here-

baycareonline.com/PUBLIC/FAQ/index_EN.asp?cate=6

Probably more than you'll ever want to know.


-Andrew

Andgott wrote:

Bob-

Though they sound similar, Cyanates and cyanide arent the same... But that's not to say they arent dangerous! They DO sound scarier than they really are. I have a background in Occupational Safety, and I will try not to get TOO in depth or technical!

You are going to be more worried about respiratory protection than covering your whole head, so FIRST make sure that the respirator cartridges you are using protect against isocyanate. Unfortunately, very few, if any, well tell you that they do. The reason for this is that the companies don't want the liability attached to telling you it's fine to use it, then having you drop dead. OSHA has decided that the appropriate protection for Iso's is supplied fresh air.

You'll be looking for a respirator with organic chemical cartridges. Also, remember that they have VERY short 'usable' lives once opened- usually around 24 hours of exposure.

Covering the eyes is important, too- as isos are absorbed through any mucous membranes. The hood is handy only because it'll keep you from getting unplanned highlights in your hair.

Spraying in a wel ventilated area is also a must, ideally a spray booth but we all know that's not going to happen for most of us. Outside is second best, at least from a ventilation standpoint.

Also- And this is VERY important, while most of the products that CONTAIN them are rather odoriferous, Isocyanates them don't actually have an odor, so you don't really know if you are being exposed. Also, the effects on your health tend to be more long term, requiring a build up over time, so you won't know right away that you've been exposed.

Of course, this doesn't apply to more acute exposures, you can get irritation, shortness of breathing, etc in a hurry with this stuff if you get exposed to enough of it.

There is a good bit of information on Isos here-

baycareonline.com/PUBLIC/FAQ/index_EN.asp?cate=6

Probably more than you'll ever want to know.


-Andrew

Well said ! i forgot the part about dermal absorption. i've been osha1910.120 hazwopper trained for about twenty years now for work but hardly ever work in hazardous environments so i do look at MSDS's and do understand things like IDLH (immediately dangerous to life and health ) and a few other acronyms related to these materials . One of the big reasons they dont sell the stuff at all the big box stores is the liability .

Well the air supplied outfit is out since it's way too expensive to justify for a one time deal. I guess I'll look for another respirator with a good fit and organic chemical filters. It looked like a 3M one at Lowes was good for paint according to the 3M site model 7812 I think. I've got a pair of googles that should work to keep it out of my eyes and I have a paint suit with hood.

Bob

Look at Ebay $180 for the mask. Then the pump is what cost. One should not use a compressor that uses oil. I have a small supply air system that I got off a large seafood tank. I would think that a small oil less compressor supplying air would be a lot better the breathing fumes.....Just be sure that the intake is far away from the painting



Not something you would get much use out of if you used every day all day long...but it works

I personally feel perfectly safe with my Half-Mask respirator and organic chemical cartridges. Mine is not a 'big box' store model- It's made by MSA, and is a 'souvenir' of my days working on petrochemical tankers... They are designed to handle some nasty stuff.

One additional thing, if your respirator isn't intended to be used for painting, it probably won't have pre filters on it. They function to catch the larger particles before they enter the cartridges of the respirator, and greatly increase the functional life of the cartridges. Most companies sell prefilters, but I've used the elements out of other types of air filters before (HVAC) too. Remember, they are only catching the big stuff before it gets to the filters that are actually removing the hazards.

Thanks guys.

TT, between the mask and the pump/compressor that's going to be too much to justify for a one time use. That's going to buy quite few other parts I need, but thank you very much for the suggestions and finding the mask on Ebay.

Andrew, thanks I think that's more in the area I can afford right now. I'll make sure it has the prefilter. The old one I have has them but I think it's time for a new one since that one is on it's second round of elastic and make shift clasps. Works fine for sanding but don't thin I trust it for this type of painting.

I plan on having both garage doors open, the 16" oscillating fan going along with the overhead airfilter I built for when I'm woodworking. Built it out of a 220v 3 speed furnace fan. Has two 20"x20" pleated filters, cross hatched on each side and blows out and up on the front. It hangs in the middle of the garage with the side toward each side of the garage and blows up toward the front doors.

Bob

Just make sure that the fan is up and running BEFORE you start to spray. Those motor are split cap motors and will throw a spark (inside) when they jump from start windings to the run windings

This is my paint booth to be, I am selling the place that I have my old walk in cooler made into a paint booth



It can be used at the wedding, yard sells and shows

Cheap fresh air system. I had the expensive purpose made fresh air system. In middle of job it burned up. We had a brand new shop vac with new filter inside. So all we did was connect the hose to output side of vac. I put vac in different room .Works great. Cheap vac 25 bucks.

TT, roger that, thanks had planned on having them running prior to starting. Nice paint booth by the way and portable too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave, thanks for the input, very good idea. I may rethink the full face mask/air supply idea. Depends on if I can find a cheap deal on the mask. Some of the 3M half face masks can actually be used with an air supply with some accessories, or at least that's what the site says.

Bob

I used this one to paint my boat.
www.google.com/products/catalog?q=full+face+respirator&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5086180082996743756&sa=X&ei=ufC-T6XEDdH3sQL5mNzqCQ&ved=0CMABEPMCMAA#

$65
I used the Valspar with Hardener. In the Garage with Plastic Sheating Stick Pinned to the walls. 4 box fans that I shut the garage door down on. Worked Great!!!

Well wouldn't you know it, figured the Valspar would come this week some time so I could get a full face repsirator ordered. It showed up Friday with the axle ubolts!!! Well the wife caught me googling the face masks and just about had a fit over the prices and asked why the heck am I painting with the kind of paint that needed that kind of mask. Well long story short I hit the Car Quest today and got a hlaf mask for painting with the double filters I have the goggles and I have a plan on how I can paint almost everything outside except the main body of the trailer. I think I'll be ok with both doors open and the fans and filter running before I start. You can see the progress on my Ajax tilt trailer thread in the member project section.

Thanks for all the help and inputs everyone, I truly appreciate it!!!!!

Bob

COULD YOU TELL ME WHAT WORKED GOOD FOR YOU 1 1/2 ACETONE OR 1/2 CUP ACETONE AND 1/4 CUP HARDNER AND WOULD A HVLP WITH A 1.5 SPRAY TIP,WORK OK

Dan,
I used the 1 1/4 cups acetone and 1/4 cup hardener.

Bob

did you just spray the clear over the white did you have to wet sand it or not, i am using a hvlp gun, tractor supply has the majic lacquer clear coat, or should i use the rustoleum acrylic clear coat not sure what the differince is, i would also like to use the metallic over the white, would i have the put a coat of reg clear coat then the metallic or can i just use the matallic right over the white, let me know how i should use it

Sorry Dan, I was Away most of the weekend. I didn't spray any clear coat over mine. Just sprayed the enamel and that was it. Sorry not much help there. I haven;t used any clear coats on any f my projects. I just sprayed two part enamel on my '72 Evinrude restoration and didn't use any clear coat on it either. I haven't done the cover yet but won't be applying clear coat over that either. The two part enamel comes out great and no need for clear coat IMHO. Someone else can chime in on the clear coat

Bob

I totally agree about the Clear Coat. The hardener has Gloss enhancers in it and all my projects have come out with a High Gloss and extremely Hard Durable finish that did not require a Clear coat. Besides, not if but when you get that ding or scratch, having several coats of clear on your paint job makes it that much more difficult to effect the repair. Just my 2¢ worth

hi
could anyone tell me how long i have to let the rustoleum cure before i wax and buff it, and what kind of wax or polish should i use, do i need to wet sand it before i buff,