TOPIC: Vinylester Resin - ANYONE?

Looking for anyone who has any experience glassing with
Vinylester. Would like to know how it behaved compared to polyester. I'm leaning toward using it on my Reinell - but still undecided. I need to use a lot of mat on the transom layup, so Epoxy is out. I also want to gelcoat the inside of the boat when done, so poly or vinyl is needed.

Thanks

I've used Vinyleter resin in the past- 3m Brand, for a small repair/layup job on a sailboat. I used it because it was free- I was working for West Marine at the time, and 3M had just come out with their new line, and I talked the rep into giving me a few quarts as samples. I'm not even 100% sure they still sell it- I haven't seen it recently, then again, I haven't been in a lot of boat stores...

Really, there was no difference in how it worked as compared to poly- Basically the same. I'm sure that you know the benefits of Vinylester, more strength, etc... At the time, 3m was basically telling us it was more or less the same as Epoxy in many regards, with the faster cure times of poly, and a bit less expensive, though not much!

In my research on this topic, it's all about flexibility and strength. For boats under 20 ft. this really does'nt factor in. Vinyl like epoxy has better stress and strength capabilities which are critical in larger hulls. It's up to you, but if you don't mind the stink, then regular Poly will be fine for your restoration. I know andgott uses a lot of epoxy because of the strenth and the fumes. I don't mind wearing the mask and working with the poly.

MyFlamingo wrote:

It's up to you, but if you don't mind the stink, then regular Poly will be fine for your restoration.

Vinylester doesn't smell any better!

Bruce,
You can use ortho or iso or vinylester on the polyester platform, as you know.
For me, the price of the vinylester at www.uscomposites.com is worth it. It works the same as ortho/iso polyester, but in doing secondary bonds and bonds to wood it is superior, which I like. Next best thing to epoxy in a nutshell, which is most tenacious of all in those respects.
And like you I use mat, albeit in 1708 biaxial stitchbonded to mat, also from uscomposites. So that was another reason I went to the vinylester. It's fast, non-critical mix, I like laying down a strong 3-layer layup in one quick operation with the ve bond strength to the substrate. And I gelcoated over the top of my layup. The ve at uscomposites comes pre-promoted but with no wax, you buy the wax separate and it's a breeze to use. So your interlaminar bonds are strong or you add the wax to top layer and you're done. Plus you can buy everything you need from them in one shipment. I have been nothing but pleased with their products.

I know Jamil wrote a piece with differing opinions regarding fabrics and resins. His opinion is respected, but for me a few dollars more per square yard of finished product isn't breaking the bank. And I'll gladly trade a few dollars to gain 3 layers per operation with the squeegee/brush/roller. For high strength two layers of biaxial gives six layers and is very strong and waterproof. Given that the boat is older than me, now that I've repaired it in this fashion the repair will outlive me. Done.

(Now on a budget, ortho or iso resin really is fine for most of the stuff all of us do, as Flamingo/Andgott have pointed out. When you think about it a lot of the restorations you see on this site have structurally improved the boat beyond it's new original condition. I've seen what looks like pallet wood in some stringers, barely tabbed in. A lot of us encapsulate stringers etc. Unless you have a Skagit with fiberglass stringers to begin with..! To me vinylester is a step above the old trusty ortho/iso, and if I weren't so lazy admit epoxy is king of bonds to wood bulkheads etc)

I've been using epoxy since '87 or so, mostly System Three. Love that stuff too. Their new products in the tubes really make projects easy since you're not mixing up filleting or fairing compounds etc. And depending on level of finish you like their water reducible linear polyurethane paint holds up well and bonds nicely to their epoxy when directions are followed. If I build another plywood boat I'll be using epoxy.

I think all the resins have their place, but For Me, I choose vinylester for most glassic renovation. I do know that at some of the local fiberglass supply shops out here, the employees themselves also choose vinylester for old fiberglass boat projects, the others use ortho the cheapest. Funny, they either went most expensive or cheapest. If they are keeping the boat they go ve, if selling ortho in many cases.
On wood boats, however, they ALL use epoxy. And on some transom work.
If money is your factor for choosing, ortho or iso are fine. If you want more peace of mind or just try something new, vinylester. You already have the skillset for any of the three.
If you asked my advice, knowing you like to go fast with a heavy V4, I'd say try the ve. It will be strong and you ain't gettin' any younger

Other opinions respected, as to me a resurrected boat with ortho painted with house paint out on the water underway beats one in the weeds/craigslist.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the insight. - Bill, looks like vinyl it will be. I was mostly concerned about how it bonded to wood. I don't need overkill, but this one is worth the extra money. It's a small-ish job anyway. Eduardo Nanca has a roll of Biax-mat that I'm going to pick up - so that will be going on the transom laminations. That tiny transom has to be happy with 100+ HP. I'm using MDO for the replacement wood on the boat.

Hey bruce, I might be completely wrong...but I think my old Thunderbird was made out of the Vinylester, the one thing I did notice that was -odd- was on a extremely hot day (above 90) I could push -real hard- on the deck cap surface with my thumb and leave a slight impression, sounds terrible but this little impression would disappear over a hour or so, over all tho the boat itself was harder than a rock.

Just an observation here- since that transom is largely decorative, there isn't much "beef" to it, I would consider building up the strength inside- reinforce it a bit, as I did on my lake m sea, but then add more 'glass to the inside of the transom once it's in place, essentially making the inner skin of the transom the strengthening portion, rather than the outer.

I've seen it done on other boats, with similar, odd transoms, and am kind of doing that on the lake n sea, too... With a strange transom like that, it kind of makes sense!

I see what your saying about the stern, he could make a pattern out cardboard then cut the plywood for it would fit the curves and in cuttings, build it for it would just "set-in-place" out of the boat with some good thickness to it as a whole semi-finished, set it in and add some back braces to the forward face, which the inside face of the stern and the plywood it self could be also "mated" together and finish with some resin and connecting layer(s) of fiberglass and some clamps and a finish layer(s) to the edges saving the out side molded fiberglass of the stern.

The one thing that getting my attention are the 'tail light' pockets, which I think it would be a bonus to fill those in prior to the above to make the stern even and flush, this also would help to protect the out side if something was to strike the out side of the stern.

The transom will be very strong, the rear skin is 3/16" glass the front skin on the splashwell is 1/8" glass, 2 layers of 3/4 Douglas Fir MDO plywood sandwiched together with heavy chop mat & resin. Back side laminated to the transom with 2 layers of stiched mat-biax fiberglass. Then it has a strongback girder glassed to the transom face, just below the splashwell. This is tabbed to the hull at the edges & fuly glassed over. It will be 3/8" thicker than the original & will be plenty for this boat.

Bruce, man I tell yea..-Nice!-^*

*
_{Just a disclaimer:
I do not know where Bruce Lives or was I helping him with this project, every thing I posted earlier I kind of picked up reading Fiber.}

Would like to see more pictures!