TOPIC: titling a boat

think this has been asked before?
but i picked up a 72 Tahiti no paperwork...
last registered in Michigan seller had no title, thinking never had one when he bought it?

what hurdles will I be looking at?

I'm n Illinois, Last I knew I would have to contact my region office and they would come out inspect and whatever else they do make sure its not stolen or that of an insurance scam... then after all ok they issue me the paper work to get it titled in my name? sound right?

Good luck...it took me six months to finally get a title in South Carolina. The "great minds" that work for the state are incapable of independent thought. Reams of forms and the notarized written statements of the last two owners and myself were not enough grant a title...for a 50 year old wooden boat that I bought for $400! It all had to be in writing...after a full-blown investigation that would have made the FBI look like slackers. On a positive note, I did acquire a new appreciation for my tax dollars at work.

Good luck! If you are in Ohio, you would have just run out of luck. If it is under 14' you are ok, over that and you may as well just part it out and hide the evidence. Can't the previous owner apply for a lost title if he in fact was the previous owner?

seller only had regeristration card, which he didn't have,
Mich reg #s are still visible along w/ DNR tag so I don't think its a stolen boat..

in mich,outboard boats under twenty ft are not titled. just went thru this last year with one. i was able to get it titled with just the bill of sale and the reg numbers and that was in ohio. if your seller had the last registration paper it would be no problem. good luck

he thought he did but unfort. nope had nothing..heck I didn't even do a bill of sale.. stupid! on my part.
Oh well I'll figure something out... but need to figure this out before I dig to far into it.

I may have to look into the Wi deal...
Does Mich plate their trailers? ... may need to draw up a bill of sale on that too...

As a minimum, get a bill of sale. Make seperate ones for the boat and trailer. Get 'em notarized if you think there will be a problem.

Andreas

Hey Nautilus,

I know you're disgust with the over abundance of bureacracy in your state. I legally acquired a boat from a reputable boat dealer here in PA and wanted to do whatever it took to title and register it the legal way. I have a bill of sale from the dealer who took the boat in in 1988 from the son of the original owner who had died and (the son) just wanted to get rid of it. It sat in the back of the lot since then. We struck a deal and I took her home. I called the wonderful Fish and Boat Commission where I started my conversation with "Eva Braun" by asking how her day was going, thinking I was being polite. I explained the situation and my intentions. I even provided her with the last registration number that was still on the boat. She automatically went into this lengthy dissertation that the person I got the boat from was not the last owner and had no right to sell the boat. I went back through the story of how he got the boat for the second time and received a scolding that I should never have purchased a boat without a proper title. Now, from what I've been told, PA didn't title boats until 1997, 9 years after this boat went into hibernation at the back of the dealer's lot. It probably was never titled anywhere but was registered for use on PA waterways, as required. She never once tried to actually listen to the facts I was giving her and instead went into this myna bird replay of, "The state of Pennsylvania requires..." as if she was programmed to provide only one statement and the tone it delivered in was intended to irritate like nails on a chalkboard.

Now comes the kicker. She said that I had to complete a state form (go figure) and apply for registration, they won't give me a title without the old one. I explained AGAIN that the last registered owner was dead. She said they would send him a letter and if he did not respond, they wouild grant me a registration BUT if someone from his family wanted to claim the boat in the future, they would come sieze my boat and give it to them. I AGAIN went through how the boat was acquired by both myself and the dealer. She AGAIN provided me with enough crap to fertilize a 40 acre field about how she was going to turn this matter over to law enforcement, as I MAY HAVE STOLEN THE BOAT!!! At that point I had received enough from my over zealous state employee and let her know that I was going straight to my computer to draft a letter to both the head of the F & B Commission and the Governor about her attitude and inability to effectively deal with the public. She actually said, "I dare you."

I have searched high and low and there is no data tag on either the boat or the trailer it came on, both no doubt long gone. I'm sure when I redo the trailer I'll find some sort of manufacturer's serial number on it but I seriously doubt the socially disfunctional office staff at F & B will want to come out and crawl around looking for it. In the end, both boat and trailer will get restored, as both are somewhat rare and deserve to be on the water again instead of rotting in a lot somewhere.

I wrote the letter I mentioned earlier and am still waiting for a reply from the governor's office, the head of F & B or for the state Gestapo to show up at my door to confiscate my legally acquired property. I may soon be sitting in a cell listening to Warren Zevon's "Lawyers, guns and money" because I tried to have a civil conversation with am employee of the this ever increasing police state they call Pennsylvania.

I love these threads. Not only should you get a bill of sale, but in Ohio it means absolutely NOTHING. They have told me, that without a title, it is like giving a bill of sale for the Brooklyn Bridge. Even if there is notarized statement or bill of sale, means nothing. It still doesn't show to anyone, that the person who was selling it, has the right to do so. After all, all a notary is, is a person authorized to say that the person signing his name, is who he says he is.It still doesn't mean he has the right to sell or possess, what he is selling. I have then said to them, that I may as well just salvage parts from it. I was then promptly told that to do so, without proof of legal ownership (title) would show that I am operating a chop shop! Now, some states don't require titles for boats (or other things like motorcycles and cars) if they are past a certain age or under a certain size. So, does one tell your state that the boat came to you through one of those states? I have had people tell me that Alabama, has a company that will issue you a title for a fee. Before I could even say anything, the state told me NOT to bring an Alabama title that is recent, because they are on to that scam. Like I said earlier about Ohio....good luck! But, if in fact this was bought from a family member of the now departed owner, I was told that the seller could apply for a lost title, if he can show he is an heir and go that way. I have no experience with that though.

Hey Dave,

This is clearly a case where the mantality has not been in touch with the times. As a stated, I was told by a very good source that PA did not start titling boats until something like 1997. So waht do we do with all these boats that were never titled? Burn 'em and get new ones? The issue really is lack of foresight on the part of our politicians, none who will ever assist you in trying to be a law abiding citizen but instead makes you feel like a criminal when you're tryingto do something the right way. Laws are written with no forethought about what has transpired in the past and how the new law will affect people. And why would someone give you a bill of sale for an item they had no right to sell? The lack of common sense in these questions (by the titling authorities)just doen't pass the smell test.

When the woman from PA F & B make the remark about me stealing the boat, I did say to her, "Now that makes sense. I steal a boat and call you with all the info so you can have me arrested. Yea, that makes sense." There were so many times when I wanted to simply ask that psycho what planet she was from and who did she think she was in the big picture of things but I don't do business like that.

In your case, I can't even believe they expect you to ask the former owner's family to request a new title. They gave a valid bill of sale. I can't understand why that sisn't enough. I bet it has something to do with a square peg in their perfect round hole system. Anythign outside of the norm is just too much for them to comprehend.

What our hobby needs is a strong political advocate that will help us get over this hurdle and be treated like to good people we are.

No Guarantee for Michigan but in NY I had absolutely no problem using this method.

Go online to Wisconsin DNR and fill out the form for a boat registration and pay the nominal fee:

dnr.wi.gov/org/caer/cs/registrations/wivrs/

Within about a week you will receive a valid Wisconsin Boat Registration in the mail.

I then took it to the NY DMV and had it converted to a valid(Transferable) boat registration.

Good luck.

Tim

Afternoon All,

I am planning on moving to NC in the next 2 years or so for various reasons. This thread made me wonder how I was going to take care of the title/registration situation for my boats. Attched is a link to the NC Wildlife Resources Commission website. Talk about common sense for a change. www.ncwildlife.org/Boating/RegistrationTitling.aspx

dave,there are exceptions to the title even here in ohio. if the boat was purchased in state that does not title that particular boat,then they can't ask for a title. example,i bought a 66 glasspar sedan from warren mich. boat less than 20 ft with no inboard motor,therefore no title. had a signed bill of sale and the previous registration. got a 12 digit serial number from watercraft enforcement,went to the title bureau,paid the sales tax and was issued an OHIO title. went next door and regestered it,no problems. now,i bought a 1960 lyman from the original owner. ohio did not began titles on boats until 1964,so there was no title. because of past problems i inquired at the title office as to how i should approach this purchase. since it was the original owner i was told to have the bill of sale noterized and to get the last registration. i did as i was instructed and after obtaining the 12 digit serial number,had no problems with getting the OHIO title issued to me. there is another little known way of dealing with the lack of a title in ohio too,but it involves the use of an attorney,going to court,and having the court order the state to issue a title. this will cost money. i have an attorney i can refer you to if you want to know more about this,since i have not had to resort to it yet. it is good to cover some of these problems we have had and how we solved them so others do not have to reinvent the wheel

Talltales, you are right, I know there are exceptions, but unfortunately, that is up to the disgression of the title dept. you are standing in front of. Some have been very helpful! Some dislike you because you are making them do something that is not everyday. I do know though, that in Allen and Auglaize Cty. the people there will not let it pass. When I used to have a problem there was one person that would always help and it was made to work. But that person is now retired. The attorney angle is possibly the only way to go. I know when I had a problem, I couldn't believe that a boat or vehicle couldn't be made legal through the ordinary channels, so I called the state office. No help there either. This is not real current info., but in the last 2 yrs. this has happened to me. There words are, there is a title someplace, find it and bring it in. Now if the boat is 14' or smaller, don't worry, it will be a shoo in. Same with outboard motors that are 15hp and over, but OLDER than 1968, I was told they can get that legal. I was told point blank though, do not even look at a motor 15hp and larger that is newer than '68 as in their words, there is no way to help you and get a title for it. My current boat came from the original owner here in Ohio. I had no problem getting it titled and getting the HIN numbers on it. That was last year Oct. I passed up allot of boats though to find this one. Good thing too, as I ended up with a better boat, that didn't cost me legal fees either to get it in my name.

barnfinder wrote:

No Guarantee for Michigan but in NY I had absolutely no problem using this method.

Go online to Wisconsin DNR and fill out the form for a boat registration and pay the nominal fee:

dnr.wi.gov/org/caer/cs/registrations/wivrs/

Within about a week you will receive a valid Wisconsin Boat Registration in the mail.

I then took it to the NY DMV and had it converted to a valid(Transferable) boat registration.

Good luck.

Tim

Boat is a 16' which is required to titled. and only thing I have going for me there is the MC reg tag from either 03 or 09 is still attached along with the numbers..

I agree there should be a simpler method for gettign ahold of old boats, I mean come one, its more revenue for the states DNR in the end...common sense law...some where along here I read it...Why would I call in to get a boat registered in my name if I knew it was stolen or I stole it? DUH? I'm sure there are people that don;t think that way ..lol

dave,it is unfortunate that your title office is like that. they can access a list that tells them if a state issues titles or not and they can call columbus for guidance too. it makes no sense that i can steal your new trailer,knock off the id tags and slap some paint on,then get a weigh slip,call it homemade,and ohio will then issue a registration for it to me. but an 50 yr old boat....go figure.
todd,it is good to know that some states are not as anal as ohio and pa. some,va for one,actually have a proceedure for getting paperwork on an old boat.
matt,the wisconson route has worked for me here,in ohio,too

Matt, I agree. Besides, the boat has the MC numbers on it. That would tell you that it was at least registered in that state at one time. All the state has to do is pull up that number, see that this number matches the description of the boat and then see who the owner was at that time. A quick look to see if the title had been transferred and you are basically on your way. I have NO IDEA, why the government can't seem to work effectively with it's constituents.

Talltales, you posted while I was typing. I am a realtor, you have NO idea how many boats and motorcycles are left behind. At one time, I used to be able to get them put into my name by going through the Sheriff dept., if it was a foreclosure. I kept myself in winter projects that way. I got the last one 3 yrs. ago. and they told me that can't do it anymore as someone "upstairs" said so. Before that, the Sheriff would over a period of time, send out 3 registered letters to the last known address. If there was no response, it could be awarded to me. If the previous owner did respond, many would just forward the title to me. Now all this wasn't for free, but $50 wasn't too bad.

Twenty years ago I was given a boat with no registration numbers or HIN here in Michigan. It was a 16' row boat - huge with a wide beam. The boat was abandoned on someone's land and they wanted it gone. I called the DNR on how to register it and told that because it had no previous reg and the owner was MIA that the boat would have to be listed as missing property by the state. After some time (90-180 days??) the boat would go up for auction and I could bid on it. I was in college, so it wasn't worth the redtape.

Ten years later I find another boat, same circumstances. This time it was a car top rowboat, so I just fixed it up and used oars. This time the DNR said it was possible to register it as a home-made boat if I had sufficient receipts. Never pursued what would be "sufficient".

Not much help for you Matt, but the redtape has been here for a while!

Each state will have different rules. SEMA has been lobbying to get states to make it possible to bring the history back to life. The 50 state title toolbox. www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=62843 Lobbying against them are the industries that make, sell, and support the new stuff. Don't forget the noisy neighbor worried about the neighborhood becoming a polluted junkyard lowering the property values.

Watch out for code enforcement!!! Hide it! They can fine huge amounts for every day you don't get it registered. They do not care if the state will not title & register it AND it is illegal for you to get ride of it. They don't even care it was a state licensed dealer that sold it to you.

If you buy from an estate, only the executor can sign the paperwork to transfer ownership. Might also need a copy of the death certificate. They will have paperwork from the court naming them as executor, and ask for ID.

Some states require a slip from a certified scale for the trailer weight.

If you have Title & Tag services they will give you the straight story. Find the one that the local old car use. They know the system and speak the language. Here they charge $20-$40 each for title and regestration. A bargin here compaired to sitting at DMV for 6 hours just to be told your missing a piece if paper.

I know in MI many boats lived their life on small private lakes. Never registered after the purchase, and the original registration was eaten by a mouse within the first couple winters...50 years ago. Some didn't want those big ugly numbers on the side, others just didn't want to pay. I haven't registered a boat in MI since the mid-late 90's, could still transfer ownership with a hand written bill of sale. I only went to the office in the small town near our lake cottage. They remembered how thing were. I don't know when titles started in MI for boats. The oldest Title I saw was 1975, GT160. When I sold my grandfathers 12' open steel rowboat I had all MI registrations dating back to 1959 when he bought new.