TOPIC: G3 Video DELETED!!!

Copyright issue. I pulled the plug. In good taste.

mike, i guess showing someones boat on you tube versus showing it in a dvd movie or a calendar, have different laws. my mantaray was shown in kevfin's dvd "boats in the belfry". kevin never asked me for permission. as far as i'm concerned once it is shown on a boating website its open game and i'll continue to believe that until someone try's to sue me. i've put together 3 calendars (some pic's without owners permission) and never was this copyright topic brought up. if i was you i never would have deleted it because of one persons complaint. it was a great vid you put together. ron

Ron-

The law is black and white, regardless of how you 'feel' about the situation. If your manta ray photos were used in a DVD, it is no different. If they were used without permission, it is against the law. The law does not differentiate between media- It's the same wether it's posted online, printed in a book, or broadcast on the air. Just because you posted them doesn't mean that they are fair game for anyone to use them as they please.

Now, YOU don't seem to mind that they were used- That's fine, they are your property to do with as you see fit. Some people, however, might not want their photos used, in any way, by others without their permission. It isn't always a matter of money, either. There are a number of photos on my web page that I'll probably never see a cent for, but I have defended the copyright on them more than once. They are mine, I will determine how they are used.

With regards to the calendars, just because the copyright issue has not been brought up, don't think it doesn't apply. Getting permission before using an image is ALWAYS the best practice- if not purely for legal reasons, at least out of common courtesy. Assume that it's protected by a copyright until you know for sure otherwise. It's a matted of CYOA. Are you going to be sued? Probably not. Do you want to chance it? Well, I personally wouldn't. I know what it can potentially cost, even if you win.

-Andrew

you do what ever floats your boat, the law is the law and those of us that know copyrights are only trying to help you understand it....do yourself a favour and google copyrights, its not like you need to retain an attorney

when I catch someone stealing my images and selling them I dont call my lawyer, hes for big companies & court proceedings, for guys like ron who say sue me....I buy a copy of my own art from the the copyright infringers and have it shipped to me......I make certain its mailed thru united states post office to a different state than the seller lives in

now I have affectively kicked it up a notch to Interstate Mail Fraud which is a federal offense & I dont need to pay lawyers I put it in the laws hands where it should be,
its theft!

this wont happen to your calendars I realize, but you just never know who youve pissed off....Im just sayin better to be safe than in court

It's a shame it has to come to this, but the law is the law, and respecting other's images and intellectual property is the right thing to do.

Asking for permission, or offering to take the offending matter down is just the right thing to do.

I don't see why you can't just edit the video a little after checking with others regarding the use of their images.

Even though you are not financially gaining from this, you are gaining "bragging rights" and it is just polite to check with others first.

I'm sure most wouldn't mind. I personally don't mind if my images are used, but would like some sort of recognition in the credits. I'm sure that's all most would want.

I think you have done the right thing by taking it down, at least until you can get things worked out.

I know it seems to take the fun out of it a little, but doing the right thing, in the long run, will make all feel better.

Just my $.02...Thanks...

boy i wish i had seen the video in question,but im on dial up and didnt even read the thread until now.
i consider everyone of you good friends,and as far as andrew (andgott),i consider him one of the most talented artists i have seen,and i understand his point.
i too consider myself somewhat of an artist and have images on websites that sell my paintings,but i havent sold much,lol,if anything.
now i consider those works copyrighted,but if i put them in this forum,or on facebook,myspace,etc. i expect someone to copy them,heck i would be proud they thought enough of them to copy them,if its for personal use as long as they say im the creator of the painting and not take credit for it,an example is a long time ago i sold some paintings to a lady only to find out later that her boyfriend painted over my signiture,and put his name in its place,then told everyone he painted them.
i guess what im trying to say is i see both points,forget about the law for just a moment,if i put my art on a site like facebook ,etc,then i consider it fair game,i posted it there for everyone to see,and possibly copy.
heck i have posted some of my art here and was thrilled that people liked them,i posted them here and if someone copied them then it my fault ,because i posted them here on a public forum,and not on my own website.
here is two of my websites and i havent made a dime off them,so i guess im not that good of an artist,and its been up about 2 years,so if anyone wants to use any images from it,go right ahead
at least ill get some exposure,lol. hand-engraved-original-mirrors.webs.com/
www.zazzle.com/john_david_gibson
this is probably why im not rich,lol .
please dont take my post wrong,im not trying to take sides im just,giving my crappy opinion.lol.lol.john

John

In the "art world" theft "can" be one the sincerest forms of flattery!

lar

lar,i have to agree,lol,john

Lar; that really is a good one. Nice to see you have not lost your sense of humor. At least you and some of the real artists among us got a chance to vent their long suppressed frustration over retaining ownership of their art. This is an important issue and certianly seems to get artist's to stand up and be counted. You all make valid points and are right about giving credit where credit is due and not using other peoples property without permission. Im with ya all and fully understand but still think this was all a bit petty over a couple of boat pictures. In my opinion the original complaintant was just puffing up his chest and trying to make himself feel important (and being petty in the process). Thats NOT how I feel about all the good artists chining in after the fact and making their points. Im not asking for anyone to agree with me and perhaps this may be an unpopular point of view but thats my gut feeling about the original complaintant. Its a shame it has come to this. In my humble opinion we have all lost more than we have gained. Brian

boatgeek wrote:

John

In the "art world" theft "can" be one the sincerest forms of flattery!

lar

I had a drawing stolen from a gallery show once... A pretty major show, in the U.K.

There was decent security, and people around when it happened. There was also a LOT of other artwork in the room at the time, and some of it was far more convenient to steal, too... But, they still stole mine.

I was a bit upset- But, at the same time, a bit flattered. An artist friend of mine once told me 'You know you've arrived in the art world when you have had work stolen'. I don't know if it's true or not, but it sounds good

-Andrew

Brian
I fail to understand how what has been voiced by myself and others is "Venting our Frustration."
I have not personally had to take anyone to task over copy right infringement for a very long time.
Those wounds have long since passed.
I guess, I was fortunate, to have learned early on, what is, and what is not, relatively safe venues to display my work, and therefore minimizing potential harm to myself.

If it would help, allow me to rephrase...
perhaps I can remove what may "sound like frustration" from the discourse.

There is not a person here
who would not
in some way,
seek to emphasize with me,
if I had shared
my wife had been raped before my eyes
nor to a man, could I not count on you
if I exclaimed
"someone had stolen my favorite truck;"
and drove it everyday in front of my house
Or, an illegal alien had somehow managed to take my job
(would be hard to do, since I'm self employed)

How is it, that the same moral / professional ethics
don't apply when were talking about a work of art?
I does not matter if were referring to a poem written on a scrap of paper, a photograph, a sculpture, or the Mona Lisa.
The same rules apply

I can bet, if I arbitrarily chose to start my own chapter of the Florida Glasspar club here in Colorado, without consulting you, or the other founding fathers, simply based on our association as friends,
we would be having an entirely different conversation.
Now you might choose to be the bigger man and overlook the offense, that is well within your rights, but, no one here would fault you if you took me to task over it.

That said,
I can not, and will not,
ascribe the actions of a fellow artist, (or anyone else who has been unduly wronged) no matter how puffed up his shirt might be,
as petty
if he even "remotely" thinks
someone is messing with his bread and butter.

I may not be Superman, but I do believe in his credo:
Truth, Justice,, and The American Way!!!

Finally,
I see real, albeit raw, talent in Mike Bigfoot's work.
Enough talent in fact to encourage him to do things the "right" way.
Why shouldn't he, or anyone else, who aspires to be creative, make a decent living off what they do, unencumbered, by having done it right.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see a new video, unfettered, from all controversy.

I may never create another work again,
but, that does not mean
I should sit idly by and not invest two cents in the hope
of a return in the lives of others
or warning them of the dangers that lie ahead

now that, my friend
would be morally, and ethically wrong

best regards
lar

Lar; You and I have no differences when it comes to the fine principles and ethics you wish to foster and promote. This is not a personal matter for me nor does it have anything to do with the Florida Glasspar Club or boating. I understand this is a personal issue for you as an artist and I respect your right to state your case. The reality is that I agree with most everything you have said. What we seem to differ on is my right to think your fellow artist was being petty and your right to defend him. Seems we shall just have to continue to disagree on this point. You may respond with a diatribe if you like but I am not likely to change my opinion on this matter nor do I have anything further to add. Im going back to enjoying myself and will leave all this in your capable hands to iron out. Brian

this is the same kind of crap that was responsible for the demise of project x 2010. people just get to deep into simple things.

Well, there you have it,
Since any further discussion on my part has already been labeled a potential diatribe,
"–noun
a bitter, sharply abusive denunciation, attack, or criticism:"

did I really come off that way?

I guess there is nothing further to be gained
in this peculiar matter by stating much else.

lar

this is getting out of control,we all have our opinions and have stated them ,now lets get on with our friendships and comaradary,like the saying goes,speak your words softly you might have to eat them,and i have done it many times,what we say ,we can never take back.
so whats up with everybodys boat ?john