TOPIC: Images on G3 "Corvette of the waterways" video in

How is every one doing???

Mike,
I was lucky to see the DelMar video while it was active and thought it was really excellent.
I have watched the G3 video several times (and a couple of my images are included) and loved it too.

Thank you for your efforts - both videos are an example of how this community of enthusiasts do things that others appreciate, asking no reward or payment.

Whoever the mean-sprited 'owners of copyright' claimant is/are are should hang their heads in shame.

I also wonder if there IS a legal copyright claim about such images, which the 'owner' originally placed somewhere on the public domain for all to see and which do not have a copyright claim visibly embedded on the image? I am not a lawyer, nor in the USA. Perhaps there is a lawyer amongst us who could advise.

The threats may be just from a small-minded, insecure individual, wanting to flex his muscles. I hope he thinks twice about his selfish request and retracts it.

Ken

Awesome video Mike, a great tribute to the G3, IMO. I don't know anything about copyright laws, guess I figured anything posted on YouTube was "fair game" as long as you weren't selling it, or taking credit for it. You did neither, as far as I could tell. (Maybe that doesn't have anything to do with it.) I know you well enough to know that the purpose of your posting was to share great pics and videos of the objects of our affection, (or affliction if you will), the 'Glassics. Thank you for all your effort in sharing your collection of images with us.

In My Opinion, if someone doesn't want anyone else seeing their stuff why do they post it on the web. Or if they just want it viewed in their own posts, put a disclaimer about using them elsewhere being forbidden. If they're worried about someone else taking credit for them, put a "tag" on the pics or videos identifying the author/artist/whatever. I too saw the post in question, and the heated complaint. It could have been handled without spewing all the hate and anger. Just my two cents worth.

Oh Yeah, I want one!!! Hmmmmm, we have a '68 or'69 1000 tower that we have been holding on to.Now to find a park-N-hide.

Ok Mike so let me get this straight, you found images on the internet a place commonly referred to as "the public domain", and you had the gall to include them in a video featuring that particular type of boat. Wow you ought to be drawn and quartered for an offense of such great magnitude!! If this isn't a case of "gimme a break" I don't know what is!!
Here's a news flash about the internet for the whiner, if you post a picture on the web it can be viewed, downloaded, moved, altered, even used against you in a court of law by just about anyone with grade 5 computer skills, to expect copy-write protection on the web is nothing short of ridiculous.
Mike I really enjoyed the G3 video but unfortunately didn't get to see the Del Mar one before it was deleted, don't be put off by the small mindedness of one individual and please don't spend even 1 second worrying about it!
Al
P.S. if any of the pics I have posted over the years on many different boating related sites interest you feel free to use them in a video.

if someone posts pics of his or her boat on this forum, you are free to use them. i was told that when i did the 2009 fiberglassics calendar. when kevfin made his "boats in the belfry" dvd, my mantaray was used without permission, why, because he didn't need it. i've posted many pics of it over the years. ron

Loved the G3 vid, didn't get to see the Delmar vid. Karma for you, Mike! Excellent job!! I agree with Downunder, he/they should bow their heads in shame, and BEG you to repost the vid!!!!!

First, Let me say I like the video- And you clearly put some time into it. I didn't see the other, but I can only assume it was just as nice...

However,

vuyosevich wrote:

if someone posts pics of his or her boat on this forum, you are free to use them. i was told that when i did the 2009 fiberglassics calendar. when kevfin made his "boats in the belfry" dvd, my mantaray was used without permission, why, because he didn't need it. i've posted many pics of it over the years. ron

This statement is not quite accurate.

Posting an image in a public forum does NOT make it public domain. The original photographer retains copyright on their image, unless they specifically say otherwise. EVERY image created after 1978 falls under the copyright laws- and is automatically protected. And, after 1989, works are not required to display the copyright notation OR statement, and are still covered.

It is also a myth that if you don't profit from it, you can use copyrighted materials- This is not the case. It is entirely up to the copyright owner.

I work as an artist, and a photographer. I have a LOT of my work posted on the web, both on my own website and other sites. In some cases, I would not mind if someone reused one of my images- in fact, there are a lot of them 'licensed' out (many of them were licensed at no charge) to various people and organizations. But- They asked for permission. It is not only common courtesy to ask first, it's the law.

Remember- If you DO use an image without permission, and the copyright holder objects, you can be in for some legal troubles... The copyright holder can take you to court, and be awarded damages, legal fees, and also require that anything made with the image in question be destroyed.

I really think that stating that someone should hang their head in shame because they choose to defend their copyrights is really a harsh statement. It is entirely within their rights.

downunder wrote:

I am not a lawyer, nor in the USA. Perhaps there is a lawyer amongst us who could advise.

Ken- I'm not a lawyer. But I have several family members who are, and I have also been involved in several copyright cases personally. I have done a LOT of research on the subject, and if anyone has questions, I'd be happy to try to answer to the best of my ability, or at least point you in the right direction!

-Andrew

i politely disagree and will go no further.

Somebody REALLY hung a 225hp Merc on a G3!?!?!?!?! WOW, talk about crazy fast.

Thanks Andrew,

I appreciate your comments and respect your position on this.
Before retirement I too worked in the design & creative fields and much of my commercial work was copyrighted to prevent exploitation by others for commercial gain. I understand the purpose of applicable law, but not the finer points.

But this is about enthusiasts and their interests, their hobby. I am forever impressed with the good nature and helpfulness of the members of this forum who give time, knowledge and encouragement. What got up my nose was the spirit in which these videos were made and the mean attitude by the complainant.

Bigfoot made no commercial gain, did not ask for reward, he collected images (most of which have been) already seen by thousands on the www and merely assembled them for all of us enthusiasts to enjoy.

Ken.

Mark , YES, the Beisel 225 hp image has been around on the G-3 home page almost from start. As a Glasspar owner I welcome all the good publicity that is put forward. .As a prior owner of a G-3 that was in your Corvette video , nice to see it was at the INternational rally. . I read thru the Del-Mar post the other day & if there was one or two colored boats under copy write disclosure , just erase those images & post / repost yourself.?

. HOWEVER if a majority of the video was from a club chapter ,or invited membership viewing only , then it is in bad taste to further pass it around. I have been in the Florida G-3 group & many outings were captured by Nancy Garwood as club images. They were trying to make the aerial shots out of a plane that COST some one money .! Again not fair to re-use that kind of image with out permission. .Like Andrew said above , I waited all night for the space shuttle rocket launch to get a killer reflection pic. The clerk at Drug store remade 7 pics from negative when I pick up & she said that pic was great I make more. ! I said you were not asked to make more ,now hand over for free or rip up.! ...There is still the Glasspar Seafair series to make more videos.? Rock music & 1 sec fast Cuts are not my "Cup of Tea". Think a slower presentation would state beauty.IMO.. Have a accepted pic in this week local newpaper contest & one pic was selected for State website tourism dept. Like someone said in this age of Photo Shop altered , Hard to know what is real & what is modified. Again , You asked for comments.

Mike,
Great video!! I want one now too!!!!!!! By the way it depends on the website in which the pictures or videos are posted and what THEIR rules are. Case in point, if you read the fine print on Facebook, any and all pictures posted on the site belong to Facebook to do with as they see fit. Just saying.

Again great video!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob

I deleted the video 12/14/10 4:05am

Mike-

This site is all about education- Mostly about boats, but often times also on other matters as well!

Copyright law is very confusing... Lawyers probably made sure of that so we'd all be confused, and have to pay them to sort it out.

You probably don't ever have to worry about being sued- Recovery in a copyright violation case is limited, and usually not worth bringing to court. The few cases that I've been involved in were resolved by me writing an email to the 'offender', asking them politely to cease using the image... That's usually all it takes, as it is usually a misunderstanding of the law that leads to the problem.

Anyone can disagree all they want with what I wrote- but it does no good to argue. It's all factual, and based on the law. If you need specific citations, I'll be more than happy to refer anyone to web pages with more information on copyrights, fair use, and public domain.

The Facebook example is partially true- But not 100%. When you post on Facebook, you have agreed to grant them an "IP License" to your intellectual property, meaning that they can use your images while they are posted on facebook... But only for certain purposes. Once it is removed from facebook, the license ceases. And, this does NOT put your images into public domain.

At any rate, though- it's a cool video, with a lot of neat info & facts, plus great pics... Hopefully no one objets to their use!

-Andrew

Mike heres my thoughts
I hate cry babys. If I was you I would offer the cry babys 10% your profits from your vidios. Hey 10% of nothing should realy make then happy. I have almost all the pictures you have on the G3 vidio in a slideshow on my computer now let the cry babys come after me and see what they get.
That was a great vidio of a great boat. If it posted on the net anybody can copy and paste it into anything or photo shop it all they want. I would think they would be happy to have the exposure of there pictures so that somebody might want to buy them.
Anyway I still hate CRY BABYS
Mike aka pathfinderz1

Great video Mike. I can tell it was made with a lot of love. There's a reason why my first FG handle was "wannag3." It didn't work out that way, but I sure love them, and loved that video you did. Good job!

Frank

Well the people running the north west site are good friends with the one that is crying about his photos being used and delted my post for say he is a cry baby. I don't care how great the guy is it still sounds like crying to me and I posted what I though. Well at least they didn't band me from the site as someone on and other site did to me for complaining on how I was treated but thats another story.
O well thats life.
I still think the vidio is great.
Mike aka pahfinderz1

Mike
I'm not sure what you hope to gain by spreading the issue around the various boat forums.
Since you have asked for comments, I offer mine.
I will post them here, and on the G3 Forum.

As an artist and craftsman, I'm very sensitive to the copyright and intellectual copyright issues raised.
There have been times, I've had to go to task with someone who has stepped on my toes.
I have also had to remedy situations where I've overstepped my boundaries.
It isn't enough to gain support for, or defend, our efforts after the fact.
The bottom line is: The laws or the individuals in question have every right to take you to task here.

They say a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Perhaps that is true, but if your starting place is wrong;
then it could stand to reason, where you might end up will be wrong.

You stated your only motivation in this venture was to foster the hobby, and glean potential bragging rights on the video.
Although no money has exchanged hands, there IS perceived value.
The bragging rights.
Also, you have made mention of the shear volume of time it took to produce the work.
The same could be said for those who initially took the pictures.
IT matters little, you have a personal investment, if you did not start from the right place:
“Using forethought to ask permission.”

If you had used a picture of my boat, then I would have asked you if you had obtained my permission.
Why?
Because, if you had not asked for mine,
I would have rightly assumed,
you had not asked for anyone’s.
Why?
I would have been hinting, that perhaps,
you might want to consider the need to protect yourself and the work of others.

Like it or not, there are some folks, who take what they do, seriously.

It personally grieves me, there are some who have vilified the individual in question for taking a stand and attempting to protect their investment in their craft.

The fine line is, there are those who take pictures, “point and shoot,” and those who take pictures with forethought and skill.

The same could be said for any other creative endeavor.

Taking advantage of them, no matter how innocuous, or innocent the motivations, still puts YOU in the same precarious position of having to defend YOUR actions.

Even tho it could be said, “a copyright is no better than your ability to defend it.”
It doesn't make it right to assume just because it is on the net, or anywhere else, it is free game.
IT ISN'T!

At the end of the day, there is a lot to be said for CYA

lar

I personally have no issues with your video...well done by the way! but to be morally correct and lawfull....angott & boatgeek are right it has nothing to do with monetary value, you do not have the rights to reproduce, .........this is not an opinion, this is the law...period
you tube will delete the sound track of "your video" if you use someone elses audio(background music)...its no different

I am a professional artist for the past 20 years and own and leased out the rights to reproduce more of my copyrights than I can remember.
In todays copyright world with all the technology advancements making copying an individuals work very easy , Im not required to register a copyright or no longer even required to "copyright mark" to identify the works to be protected by copyright laws,they are now automatically protected at the moment they are created, however I do register my work that I make my income from because I have a seriously FIRMER legal standpoint

I have an attorney on retainer for this very reason, almost once a year there is someone that has stolen my work and selling reproductions on ebay yahoo & who knows where else, I am forced to keep a vigilant an eye on these places to prevent copyright thieves from stealing my livelhood....I cant stop it all, far too much corruption these days

as to public domain....the only items in public domain are items prior to 1978 (I think thats the correct year..look it up)OR copyrights that have expired since that date and the owner no longer has any interest to protect his or her works...you also need to be careful because heirs also get control of copyrights for a prescribed length of time

Keep in mind you stated "this video I am so proud of", so imagine how the "actual" photographer or whoever's work thats been infringed upon feels, they were so proud of their work & they deserve the credit and warm fuzzies.. best to just ask permission to use a copyrighted item...most times you will find the copyright owner is flattered you want to use it

When I digitize something and put it on the internet it is in the public domain and I intend it to be shared.

I NEVER expect the image or document to not end up somewhere else. It will eventually emerge in another form or perhaps end up deleted forever.

Unless it is a photo of a president being shot or Britney Spears throwing up, the commercial value of a classic boat image is NIL, Zero.

I can see being angry if a photo has someone's family member doing something illegal but a run-of-the-mill shot of a boat, I cannot.

IMHO most people should take it as a compliment if someone cared enough to include their boat in a youtube video for 3 seconds. But then again, I am not most people. lol


Darren

darren, your my kind of people. ...ron

darren nemeth wrote:

When I digitize something and put it on the internet it is in the public domain and I intend it to be shared.

The term 'Public Domain' is a legal definition. Posting something on the internet does not, by default, put it in the public domain-

"Works are in the public domain if they are not covered by intellectual property rights at all, if the intellectual property rights have expired, and/or if the intellectual property rights are forfeited." (wikipedia)

Just because an item is accessible to the public does NOT mean it is public domain. It only becomes so if the original owner of the item specifically forfeits rights, or if the rights have expired. Generally, after 1978, that means the life of the originator PLUS 70 years.

YOU may intend anything that you post to be shared freely, but not everyone does. And the law protects the rights of those who choose not to post everything as 'public domain'.

darren nemeth wrote:

Unless it is a photo of a president being shot or Britney Spears throwing up, the commercial value of a classic boat image is NIL, Zero.

In your opinion, perhaps. But, again, it is the choice of the creator of the item. The 'value' that they assign to it is entirely up to them- it is their property. It doesn't have to be a financial value, either. There is nothing in copyright law that states a dollar amount that makes a copyright valid. EVERY work is protected, regardless of what it's 'Worth'.