TOPIC: Newbie looking for info

Hello to all you old boat lovers! I am a new member here and have already found the site to be interesting and informative. I have restored wooden boats but I have recently aquired a 1958 Bowman Havana (pics posted in the Gallery). What I really like about the boat is that it has a fiberglass hull (apparently made by Goodyear Aerospace) and a wood top deck. This combination is the best of both worlds to anyone who has owned a boat made completly of wood! I can't wait to get her restored!

I have researched this boat and there is precious little out there, most of which I have found on this site. If anyone has any info, parts sources, etc. I would be most grateful. One of the "Bowman" chrome emblems is damaged and I would really like to find a new or at least servicable replacement. Probably a long shot I know but worth asking!

Thanks again for any help and I will post pics as the restoration progresses.

Dave

DC : WELCOME. Yes 57, 58 was a change over year for many companies. 57 Crosby had wood decks, & some MFG had the lapstrake side lines & wood top .
.. Looked at the gallery & your speedster looks interesting . The Blue windshield is sort of along the Chrysler 70's line (?) , but I had a 56 Aristo Craft with a Green curved windshield.

Again CONGRATS. Some of our members are Mold Casting a few of the hardware pieces they are missing , so post a note if you strike out. My friend here in East Tenn helps at the RR blacksmith shop.

The Bowman model information contained in the 1960 and 1963 Outboard Boat Trade-In Guide Blue Books and posted in the Library section doesn't have 1958 model year info, however the Havana model is listed in 1956 (but not in 1957 or 1959).

According to Lee Wangstead's posts in the old forum, 1956 was the year of wood decks with fiberglass hulls, however the 1957 brochure in the Library section lists the Sarasota and Bahama models with wood decks. Would be helpful to see some 1956 and 1958 information. Are you certain of the year (1958) and model (Havana) of your Bowman? One or the other might be incorrect. I would guess the year (you have a style of steering wheel that was more common in 1957 and earlier, also model year is more often mixed up than the model).

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Split,

You may be right. The previous owner said he had the boat for 34 years and the title says 1958, but it looks like it could be a MO lost title number (the ID starts with MO) and there are no numbers on the hull that I can find.

Having said that, he did have some literature he got from a boat historian that says Havana and the picture looks about right. Still can't for sure verify the year though. Also, the motor is a 1957 and that might be a hint if indeed this is the motor that came with the boat. No real way to tell that either I suppose.

If you look at the ad (added to Gallery), the windshield does not match the boat so I am assuming it was replaced with the tinted wrap around windshield it has now. I will most likely try to find a windshield that is closer to the original.

Dave

Great ad! Thanks for sharing- do you mind if we add it to the Classic Boat Library?

Also, if you have any other literature, related to Bowman or not, we would love to see it. It's surprising sometimes what pops up and proves useful to someone.

Not sure it matters, but the MO thing sounds a bit off. I've done quite a few Mo titles, and from what I know there is no such things as a "lost title" There is a duplicate title, and it would have the original info but say duplicate on it. It would be issued to the original title holder.

The "MO" serial numbers, usually next one is a "Z", then 9 numbers (except when they mess up and make their little serial number plates wrong and add more numbers, then hassle the owner that he messed up the number even though they made the plate - speaking from experience) are issued when there is no serial number. But I have seen nothing that would indicate they were doing that 34 years ago. It's a more recent thing. You title should tell you a lot, as a minimum it should have an issued date, and a purchase date, original or duplicate, or corrected copy.

Some other things Mo did was to use the MO number (like MO 1234 XY) as also the serial number for many years on boats that had none, but this was before the MOZ numbers started. Now they'll make you get it inspected, then issue an MOZ number and plate to put on the boat. Except when they forget. The numbers on the boat stay the same no mater what - except if it was a boat used as a rental boat. Then the number would be "MO 1234 RE", the "RE" meaning it's used for rental. Then they will issue a new MO number (MO 1234 AB) - except when they forget, then they'll say you should have changed it, but now they won't, but you might get hassled by the water patrol if they notice. How do I know? I bought 2 Studebaker boats, both RE numbers, one got changed after the fact, one didn't. Oh, well.

I'm going through registering 4 old boats I recently bought out of fields, so I'm sure I can add to the list of strange things they do here soon.

HandyAndy wrote:

Great ad! Thanks for sharing- do you mind if we add it to the Classic Boat Library?

Also, if you have any other literature, related to Bowman or not, we would love to see it. It's surprising sometimes what pops up and proves useful to someone.

HandyAndy,

Please feel free to post the ad for others to see, use whatever. I have some other stuff the owner gave me, I will scan some more in when I can.

Dave

Austinsailor wrote:

Not sure it matters, but the MO thing sounds a bit off. ......

Austinsailor,

Wow, only a true diehard classic boater would put up with all that bu*&%(t!!! I will take a closer look at the title now that I have some additional information.

Thanks!

Dave

Austinsailor wrote:

Some other things Mo did was to use the MO number (like MO 1234 XY) as also the serial number for many years on boats that had none, but this was before the MOZ numbers started.

BINGO!

I checked the title again and sure enough, the Mfg's Serial # matches the boat registration. The title was issued in 1976. So far the only reference to the Havana is 1956 (thanks again Handy) but i'm sure a hell not going to take it up with the state! I'll let that sleeping dog lie!

Dave

Are you in Mo? If so, you'll need to get it inspected by any law officer to verify there is no serial number. Get the form from any license office. They may tell you it has to be a water patrol officer that inspects it, but they'd be wrong. It also seems strange to have someone certify something doesn't exist, as if they would know where to look on every old boat, but that is the way it is.

Take that, your title and they'll give you a new MOZ number to affix to it. Seems like the last one I did I had to go get something notorized, but I don't recall what it was.

Update: I just looked at your profile and see you are, in fact, in Mo. If you need help, email me at austin dot sailor at yahoo dot com. If he dated the title, you'll start paying penalties after about 20 days if you don't go down and register it.

If you want the title corrected, like the length is wrong, or year or whatever, and have proof to show them, now is the time to do that as well. Probably doesn't apply to yours.

You also have an option of title only, you don't have to buy the registration for it until you're ready to use it.(You also don't have to have a personal property tax receipt for title only) If you use it on private water, you are only required to title it, registration is not required, but that probably doesn't apply.

I just figured out how to blow up the ad for your boat and see it's 16'. Back then some were measured by the length along the gunnel, and a 15' overall lengthboat would be listed as a 16', for example. The only reason you might care is that 16' is where the registration fees double. 15'11" is much cheaper than 16'. This might be a reason to get the title changed. I did on a Sprayline I registered a couple weeks ago. Just a thought.

Austinsailor,

Thanks for all the useful tips. I had the seller not date the title since I'm going to do a complete restoration and it will take several months (at the rate I work, anyway!)

I will certainly check into the length issue and hopefully get the title straightened out.

Dave

If you happen to find a serial number during your work, you can get it inspected and change if from the M0 1234 XY type thing to the actual sn, instead of changing to the MOZ thing, which I find crappy for an original boat.

By the way, Kansas now will change your SN to their KAZ format even if you have a good sn on your boat if it doesn't meet the 12 digit federal format.

HandyAndy wrote:

Great ad! Thanks for sharing- do you mind if we add it to the Classic Boat Library?

Also, if you have any other literature, related to Bowman or not, we would love to see it. It's surprising sometimes what pops up and proves useful to someone.

Here are some additoinal ads that the seller gave me. He said he got these from a boat historian named Michael King. I have his contact info if anyone is interested.

Dave

Great stuff, added to the Library!

It's been two years since I last posted here. I have been working on the Bowman (1958 Havana) on and off as I get time. I uploaded some new pics in my member gallery. Here is a recent one: