TOPIC: devil ray,manta ray,power cat,not true catamarans?

i was looking at the library section,and the magizine called "popular boating" says that the custom craft devil ray and manta ray they tested is not a catamaran,because a catamaran is two seperate hulls,which i think is true,the magazine goes on to say that these boats are really hydroplanes,i guess when you think about it sounds like they are right,john

John, could you go back there and copy and paste that link in for me? I looked and can't quickly find what you're talking about. Thanks!

Frank

opps sorry frank,it was at daves site nickle city classics,heres the link,i hope dosent mind,im pretty sure he wont,john
www.nicklecityclassics.com/apps/photos/album?albumid=4603976

by the way they didnt say that aout powercat,there was supposed to be an ETC. after power cat in my header(subject line),lol,john

I may agree that the Rays aren't cats, they're tunnel hull 4 point hydros more likely. The Manta Rays raise up the forward sponsons and ride on the back of them and the rear of the boat. The Power Cat I consider a true cat as the design has two distinct sides to the hull. Probably splitting hairs here if you look at the photos below. Hard to tell the design difference between a 61 Manta (that would be exactly like the 62 without the center pod) and the 61 Power Cat. Both have similar design features, absent the step in the sponson on the Manta. This is the bottom of the 62 Manta, the 61 Manta under way, the stbd sponson of the 62 Manta, and the bottom of the Power Cat 18DC.

try telling donald canazzi that. lol the center pod mantarays i would agree they are not cats. a 60 or 61 mantaray without the center pod is barely a cat. powercats that have the middle sponson aren't cat's. this is what a real cat looks like....bottom pics...thats my understanding anyway. ok..bring on the heat... think this last one is bill anderson's. hehe

this is why i asked the question,lol,i think its a good topic,i call them cats,and so did their manufacturers ,its the "popular boat magazine"that says different.
i do see some of their points though,websters says a boat with twin hulls,isnt our boats the same hull with twin keels?
lol,i will probably lose karma points for this one,lol.
its just i was suprised by that article in popular boat,did you read it ron?
heck i think its cool to have a hydro plane,lol or a cat,i think both are cool.lol,i hope everybody takes with the lightheartedness that i do,just a good disscussion,john.ps i agree with brian 4 point tunnel hull hydroplanes,very cool i think.
so what does this make my devil ray?lol.

Two hulls, front to back, no center pod, is a true tunnel hull or cat. Add the center pod, becomes a modified tunnel or cat, newer versions for racing/ high speed, called Mod VP, after the racing class from the 1970's/80's. Hydroplanes have a flat hull with forward sponsons that END no more than halfway back from the nose. Or, the APBA has been around for many years, and has rules and specifications to determine hull types and classifications. Any APBA members that can chime in? I'm basing my OPINIONS on years of reading, watching, doing, etc. anything high speed RECREATIONAL boating related, from 10' GW Invaders to modern V-6 powered missiles. My boats ranged from the obligatory 12' rowboat, to a 10' 2 seater that ran 28 with 15 hp, past a 14' Checkmate/125hp Ev, to a 19'Checkmate with 150hp. Rode in/ worked with buddies boats, up to 110 mph outboards, 140+ mph drag hydro V-drive (that was a RUSH!!!!)

Now the short version. Call it a cat, flat, or vee to save time describing the boat INFORMALLY on a site like this. Not everyone likes to get too specific, pretty much everyone on the site will know what you are talking about, and the pics do wonders.

kerry yep i agree,lol,i call them cats too,and always will,i just thought that the magizine article was interesting,and a bit of history.
i was mostly picking on my buddies,trying to get a little rise out of them,especially ron,lol.i think it worked,lol got ya ron!
heck i have a devil ray on the way soon,ill call it a cat or tunnel hull.
either way they are very ,very cool boats,john

hehe..would love to hear Canazzi's reply. too bad he is not with us anymore. i called my devilray a cat also when i was younger. the pic brian posted of the hull bottom, i believe is his powercat. now that hull has no step to break it up and is a true catamaran. the mantaray however with the stepped hull i guess you can make an arguement over. john wanted to see if i had any gander left. thats how he judges my health. ron

I call mine a trimaran tunnel hull.

glad your feeling good ron,lol.i knew it was a bad day ,with dialiysis today.i couldnt help myself had to get ya going.lol.
frank this is the ist time i really saw the underside of your cat,very very cool.
i tried to get you going too frank but it didnt work.
all of you guys are great and it is a good disscussion,i think,john

john, dialysis days are good days. i get to tease the phillipino nurses. but boy they sure are americanized. they love the names of our cc's btw, i showed them pic's. it is a good discussion on the hull designs. happy thanksgiving john. we have a lot to be thankful for. ron

yes happy thanksgiving,and i do have alot to be thankful for,my wonderful wife and my family,and my good friends here,so thank you all ,john

Very interesting discussion. The different names used to
describe the different hull designs get used and missused
to such a degree that they tend to become almost meaningless.
The name Tri-hull for instance is used to describe so many
boat designs, the name no longer has a distinct meaning.
The other contributing factor has been we manufacturers
ourselves bend the rules to suite our marketing and advertising
promotions. Power Cat began as twin hull catamarans, and then
when we added the center hull, we called them tri-hulls. When
we started builing the stepped hull boats we called them
hydroplanes, and even though our 4pt hydro had a tunnel we did
not use the catamaran name. When Switzer built their wing they
refered to it as a hydro-cat indicating a mix of designs and
probably that name could be used to describe the Power Cat 4pt
hydro, the CC stepped hull cats, the GlassMagic Banshee, and
others I can't think of right now.
In my mind there should be a distinction between catamarans
and tunnel hulls. True cats have flat planing surfaces and
non-trip inner/outer chines. Tunnel hulls have angled planing
surfaces and vertical hard inner chines.
As Frank indicates, what we originally called a tri-hull we
now call a tri-maran just to separate the 3-hulled cat from
what I now think of as a tri-hull. Many modern manufacturers
use whatever names they feel describes the type of boat they
want to market, not necessarily the true design they follow.
What we think of as a tunnel hull, even todays fastest Formula
One racing tunnels, have a pod in the center section to facilitate
take-off and accelleration. Many of the large offshore racing
catamarans, now have multiple steps and lifting strakes
incorporated in the designs. The lines blur even further in
todays pleasure boat market.
One thing to remember, many magazine articles you will find
in the older publications ( and modern as well ) are
strictly advertising in disguise. I know that we paid for many
of the "articles" published covering our boat products, and
many other magazines would do the same "if you paid for adds" in
their magazine. They would then just publish what they were told.
So using them as references can be suspect.
I certainly am no expert on this subject, as I continue to learn
from my online research. One thing to keep in mind is that these
terms only have meaning if accepted by the majority.
Language usage of itself can be a facinating subject,
and as it applies to us in the "old boat culture" it
can get confusing.
Regards,
Danny Leger