TOPIC: When do you think a boat is a goner?

Really I'm trying to find out what you all look for when you buy a boat to restore.
What do you think is too far gone and what do you think is a good starting point? What are the key things you look for in a boat?

My budget is such that I know I'll be buying a project instead of something turnkey. I'm actually looking forward to that. I like restoration type projects though I haven't tackled a boat yet.

Right now I'm starting to get a feel for what sort of boat I want to get though getting one is still somewhere in the future. It'll probably be a small cabin cruiser of some sort because my wife and daughter both want "something with a toilet". I would prefer a small runabout but am willing to let them have their way. I still get a boat. I'm thinking to satisfy my want for a vintage boat it'll probably be pre-1970. I also want it to be easily trailerable so probably under 20ft.
Rodney

Rodney. A boat is not a goner until it's no less than 30' under water.
Some of these guys have restored boats that had trees growing out of them. I did one flying fish that had over 300 holes to patch up. I used to rebuild them to use thinking I was going to keep 'em but it always got to the point that I would not have time to use them so they would go on the auction block. A few weeks later I would pick up another. Just about everything I look for is on the cheap side. If it has a motor, hull and trailer with a decent price I'll give it some consideration. Now I'm getting picky in my old age and looking for fins only. Spend a few winters fixin' up and then use for a season and then back on the market.
Late 50's and early 60's are neat and really over engineered with thick hand laid glass hulls, heavy but solid as a rock.

Don't know where your located but if west of the Mississippi finding a reasonably good Glasspar Seafair Sedan or other model of your liking should be fairly easy and also inexpensive. I have purchased them for as little as $200, boat motor and trailer. Didn't always know if the motor ran or not but still a good buy. Transom and sole are problematic for all old boats but there is so much info on the glasspar restorations that virtually a blind person could do it. Good luck and get started. Every day that you procrastinate purchasing is a day less spent enjoying the wonderful world of boating.
Jack

I figure that if a boat is cut completely in half, it's not restorable. Then again, given enough time and money, I could do it.

The next voice you hear will be that of experience via hard knocks:

Projects are great (I make a living at it) but my advice would be to buy something that you can actually use day one but that needs a lot of work to be presentable and dependable. Too many guys buy projects that are either way over their head to restore or they run out of money, have too little time and after awhile, they just throw in the towel and say "The hell with it." That's when I usually buy their boat...cheap.

Turn key boats can be had cheap if you do your homework. Generally, restoring a boat will cost at least three times what you could buy one for already restored. Set yourself a limit...say about $2,500...and go find the best boat you can for the money. It will give you something you can actually go boating with and will make momma happy too.

Fall is the time to buy:
1) People want to unload instead of paying storage.
2) Something broke and they don't want to pay to have it fixed.
3) They're tired of boating and the kids are grown.
4) They want to take advantage of great dealer sales at the end of the year.
5) Etc., etc.

You'll have all winter long to tweak things before spring. If you ignore this advice, that means that you aren't any smarter than I have been over the years. Don't be me!

Find some boats you like on CL and post the pics here. You'll get opinions on whether they are restore-able and what it takes to do that.

Jan, $2500 bucks?? Never paid more than $700 and I thought that would break my bank. $2500 would be total cost for me after supplies. I did pay $3500 for the Century Sabre...total cost after restore was a smidgeon past $8000. (don't tell the admiral)
Most "project" boats, meaning non running but fixable probably can be found around $500 or less.

Just my two cents worth,...Stay away from I/O hulls.
If you will be running on big water - stay away from somewhat flat bottom or rounded bottom hulls - momma & sis won't appreciate the rough ride in bumpy water.
There are some great late '70s 19'-21'+ BellBoy, Fiberform, GlasPly, and other similar hulls with room for a head, and other covered areas that are very stable in rough water.
One of the nicest & most comfortable boats we have had for cruising was an '80s 19' GlasPly. It didn't have a cutty for a head, but was otherwise Perfecto-Mondo for us.
If you plan on cruising protected water, you might find something in the 17' variety, but the 19-21' will probably keep momma & sis happier.
doc


Holey Moley,...I REALLY miss that GlasPly.
SIGH,...Some grandpas take pictures of their g-babies,...I take pictures of my Merc 'kids'. WCIS??? SIGH

I like GlasPlys. Nice looking boats. A smaller cabin model would be ideal. Looks like others like them too. They tend to hold more of their value than a lot of other boats.
Why no I/O boats? I've been around a few and they seem like a pretty solid setup to me. Plus I'm a lot more familiar with 4 stroke engines than I am outboards.
Rodney

This one doesn't have a cabin but it looks like it has good potential otherwise. Looks like it's pretty complete other than maybe seats. I can't see for sure. Doesn't appear to have been too abused but was probably stored uncovered. It is an I/O though.
No, I'm not bringing it home.
seattle.craigslist.org/sno/zip/5809591524.html
Rodney

I/O boats are NEEDY, especially in saltwater. If you don't mind tinkering (which I don't), they're not too bad as long as you have good access to the engine. Some are crammed in a tiny hole and you have to stand on your head just to feel what you want to work on... The outdrives seem to always need attention as well. I had a Subaru 2.2, the most UN-needy engine ever, adapted into my houseboat and finally gave up and went outboard.

I just plain like inboard boats. Why anyone would prefer a super-complicated drive system that makes two 90-degree turns has always been a mystery to me. Everything about a stern drive is complicated: steering, hydraulic lifting system, throttle/gearshift assembly, etc. Plus, the engine is always mounted down in a hole and it's damned tough to work on. It took my two hours+ to remove and reinstall a sea water pump on a 454 Bravo! Hell, you can't even see the starter! An inboard drive is trouble-free..."straight" to the point. The engine is easily accessible and easy to work on or even replace. I guess what I'm trying to say is that stern drives suck! They make me cuss.

Availability and budget will probably limit me to either an outboard setup or an I/O. I like true inboards -4 stroke engine and simple drive, plus good weight distribution-but there don't seem to be a lot out there in smaller boats. I usually only see them on high performance ski boats or wooden runabouts. Reality gets in the way of a classic runabout for me.
I have no experience with larger outboards. What are the pros and cons with them?
Rodney

I bought my 71 Kona almost 2 years ago for $2500. Ran pretty decent right from the start.
The reasons I went with the IL6 Merc outboard:
Light weight. I can tow it over the grapevine (north of Los Angeles) with my V6 Jeep.
Reliable. Replace the impeller every couple seasons, mix your oil, and they just plain work.
Cheap. $2500 and it ran good on day one. An easy carb rebuild later, and it ran great! 50 MPH for less than $3k is doing pretty good.
Kid friendly. My kids wont get burned or otherwise hurt (I do keep em away from the prop tho).
Out Of My Boat. By putting the motor outside, you gain a lot of space. My 17' feels like a 20+ because I get all that room back.
No holes in my hull. I/O always develop leaks. No hole in my hull, no leaks.

Getting into an old 2 stroke did have a minor learning curve, but with the help of this site, these motors are really easy to work on.

Will

The definition of a bathroom or head on a boat is very open to interpretation! From a port-a-potty under the v cushion (or a covered bucket ), to an actual enclosed area.

If you want to go pre-'70, look at something in the 18-22 foot range with a cuddy. Plenty of space for a "head", and won't have to crouch down as much. I'd also not rule out some of the early 70's boats. still some cool designs (although not as "finny") and still built solidly. Keep your eyes here on the glassifieds as well as craigslist and ebay. They come up - I think there is a 20' cuddy now in there. '

If you have the time (which I don't - but after retirement in 4 years - look out!) it can be fun to restore. Or, like me, you can have a "restore as you use" boat - although I did nothing with it this summer due to time constraints.

Anyway, lots of choices, and although I have owned both out boards and I/O's, if possible, stick to an outbaord is my 2 cents. Second, straight inboard (from what I've heard), and if go with I/O (and I'm gong to get in trouble here!!) go with mercruiser or if OMC, the cobra. I'd shy away from the old OMC drives just due to parts availability. I've had both mercruiser alphas and cobra's and as long as know what dong, both work great. But outbard would be 1st choice - If something goes wrong - easy to replace!

Either way, good luck!

Al T

Thanks guys.
Here's a decent looking 19' 1975 Glasply cuddy with an outboard.
skagit.craigslist.org/boa/5824453013.html
Opinions?
Rodney

It would seem to fill your requirements. The price is a little steep for a motor "that may or may not run" but it is a 140 and if it's complete, it will probably run with a little coaxing. If the interior that "needs help" is usable as-is, I'd offer $900. If he turns it down, go to $1,000 but I'd walk away after that.

Although I totally respect Nautiluses opinion I do disagree with him. If this boat has the bones and fits your needs then even asking price is not too much. However we all know that he is going to negotiate some. From the pictures the boat appears to have been pretty well maintained, it is a nice looking piece. Should be an easy one to have in the water very soon.
Jack

I know that I may upset some with my opinion, but right now I'm finding it to be a buyers market. The boat looks nice, but there are not many buyers for that particular boat. I think you will own it for $900. Be prepared to walk but in the end, I think you will end up with it. Keep in mind that you always will have surprises with each purchase in the form of unexpected expenses. It's all part of the fun. Keep us posted as to how you fare!

Add to the mix that it's the end of season for northerners. The seller is looking at winter storage, shrink wrap or the least mouseproofing and a tarp, draining stuff, blocking trailer etc.

I don't think I've ever heard anything negative said about Glasplys of that style. I think the worst I've heard said was "They're small." from my dad. Dad likes fishing salmon off the mouth of the Columbia River and preferred bigger boats. I want to keep the size around 20 ft max. I don't want to mess with towing anything larger and don't want the joys of paying for moorage either. I'm not getting that particular boat. I won't be ready for the financial and space commitments it takes to have a boat of any size at all for a while. Right now it's purely research. It is nice to know they made an outboard version. I think all the ones I remember seeing were I/O. I'm not ruling out earlier makes and models of small cabin cruisers, I do like the earlier styling even if it means trading a V bottom for a flatter bottomed boat. Right now I'm thinking our boating will be pretty much just fair weather pleasure stuff without a lot of rough water.

I can see how guys get sucked into this. I keep thinking "Cabin cruiser for the girls and maybe a small fin boat to play around in later for me."
Dangerous thoughts.

Here's one that I would pass on.
seattle.craigslist.org/sno/boa/5820244044.html
1959 Glaspar Seafair Sedan. Normally I would be interested but I think this one is too modified for me. Not sure what's going on with the transom. Looks like it might have been cut and spliced in from another boat. Whatever happened to the side windows doesn't work for me either. Given the fact that I have one leg, the wooden floor just looks like a slippery nightmare to me though that's not as important. I think I can pretty much count on replacing rotten floors on anything I bring home unless I'm really lucky. I'm more concerned about having something original to follow.
Thoughts on a boat like this?

EDIT: I decided to add this to the discussion. 1961 Bell Boy
bellingham.craigslist.org/boa/5764527713.html
This one actually has more potential to me than the first boat above. Rotten woodwork and all. It hasn't been cut up at least so there's something to work with anyway.
Rodney

I would go with the Bell Boy. It looks to be a nice original blank slate ready to restore, besides that, just look at it!!!
Beautiful lines!!!

+1 on the Bellboy!

Yes. Bellboy.
Engine probably will need an impeller at least but I would be it's in good condition. Cool looking boat and would be a head turner.

How much room is there really on a boat like that Bell Boy? Is there room for seating for 3 or 4 people in the back? I think originally it would have had seating for two. Would a bench seat be feasible in the back or would it put too much weight where it doesn't belong? I ask because there are three of us and I don't want to have to cram the kid up in the cabin while we're moving. The point is for it to be fun after all. My dad had boats primarily for fishing. It was all about weight distribution for him until we got where we were going. I spent a fair amount of time being adjustable ballast in a boat.

Looks like I'm starting to get some idea of what to look for. I'm not too concerned about replacing floors and transoms. I'm pretty sure I'm capable of doing a safe and (hopefully) decent looking job. Body work is something I haven't done much of. Getting things perfectly smooth will be a bit of a challenge.

I'm also just going to accept that the cost of repairing any boat I bring home will far outweigh the cost of the boat itself and most likely the potential sale price I could get for it when I'm done. That's how it has worked with my woodworking machines anyway. I'm still way ahead compared to the cost of comparable-if even available-new machines and have the pleasure of working with vintage tools that not everyone has.

Outboards seem to be the preferred method of power here. Like body work a bit of a learning curve for me but still within reason. A true inboard would be best case but unless I get really lucky that probably won't happen.
Last choice would be I/O setups.

What should I look for in an outboard? I've never worked on one so they're pretty much complete mysteries to me.

What about the boat's hardware, controls, etc? Any deal breakers there? I'm assuming the more intact the better but where do you draw the line or is there a line? Keep in mind I'll be starting with a relatively common lower value boat, not a super rare boat that is worth preserving at any cost.
Thanks!
Rodney