TOPIC: Revolution Outboards: Looking for feedback

Hello All!

Many updates:
First,
I finally pulled out my G3 and cleaned her up and will be firing up the 650 on Lake George tomorrow!

Second,
Benjamin Sorkin (fellow G3 owner and ACBS Lake Champlain member), a few engineering students, and I have founded a small startup currently working out of Princeton University in Princeton, NJ designing and building electric propulsion systems for boats. Currently we are on our 4th prototype, however we are also looking into providing custom electric conversions for outboard motors.

As a proof-of-concept we converted a 1960 Merc 60 to electric. We replaced the powerhead with an electric motor and integrated in an electric system with lithium ion batteries. It was showcased at the ACBS Lake Champlain and Lake George (Adirondack chapter) boat shows last year.

We are still in the research and development stage and any and all thoughts, feedback, or opinions would be incredibly helpful!

Any potential interest in an electric conversion for an antique or vintage outboard, or interest in a complete motor would help us to refine the designs and continue market research.



Please do not hesitate to respond with any thoughts or questions.



Thanks,

Derek Wacks (well-worth-it)
Revolution Outboards
917-373-3227
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
www.revolutionoutboards.com

Pictured here is our performance model mounted on a pickle-fork racing hydroplane. It reached a top speed of 40.8mph

How many batteries are you running on the 60 prototype? What about mileage? I would be interested in a 69 Merc 65 conversion. How does the cost compare to say, a Torqueedo motor? It also wouldn't be hard to get it out to Princeton as I live in Toms River.

I'm just a layman but since you are starting off in a niche market, why not focus on a niche consumer and produce a limited variety of HP's but make them available with "antique" motor looks ? With CNC machining and magnesium being cheap these days you could actually copy the original engine covers for any boat you wished ! All you would need are specs. How many of us would try one of these electrics if it looked like a tower of power ?? The exposure you'd get from a few dozen custom orders would be priceless. You might not make a profit if you go into too much detail but then again, you need to get the word out and for not a lot of money. Boaters talk a lot and old boaters talk MORE. Just a thought. Good luck with it. I'm waiting for the answers on battery weight and longevity and I'm curious about recharging. Have you thought about dockside and possibly solar ?? Before you say yes did you take into account that on sunny days the boats won't be at the dock so you'll have to collect the day's power for nighttime charging ? Sorry if that's too much feedback.

I'd like to see more pics of that Performance model, info on batteries used, running time before charge fades, total weight of motor and battery(ies?) lower unit used.

I have no interest in electric -- opposite of my reason to love these old boats. Just my 2 cents.

Dont have the link habdy, but a recent post on a different boat forum listed impressive specs until you read battery requirements and run tim. About an hour, at varying speeds. And the recharge took awhile, more then an 1.5hrs, IIRC. And doesnt recharge efficiency go down w hot batteries? Having seen a rechargeable battery yet that doesnt heat up as you discharge it. Esp if discharged quickly.

Great idea, good luck w your endeavor

Hey all,

Thanks for the feedback! Working on electric motors and vintage marine stuff in general has been super exciting, and it's great to have the opportunity to share it with fellow boat enthusiasts.

Regarding some of the specifics:

@NJTriton, The merc 60 prototype was a fairly small and simple setup, producing just about 6 horsepower as to match the original motor's output. That one had a 1.5 kWh battery pack weighing roughly 30 pounds. At WOT, it would run for 20 minutes at 18 mph. Being the first conversion, we used inexpensive and inefficient components.

The performance model had a larger battery pack (4kWh), and could run at 40 mph, also for about 20 minutes. While the outboard was more efficient than the previous model, the setup was not ideal, as you can see in the picture the hydro has too much of a wetted surface. So there is a lot of room for improvement there!

While those two motors were tested on hydroplanes, we are working on another motor right now that is completely built in-house, rather than a conversion. This particular model will be comparable to the Torqeedo Deep Blue 40, except half the weight. Cost is also comparable, depending on the design and usage goals, largely dictated by battery choice.

In terms of a merc 650 conversion, that is something we could definitely explore! Both Derek and I have become very familiar with that style of merc and would be able to convert it. I can send you a direct message and talk more about that possibility!

@Firstglassproject;
We've definitely thought about targeting a niche conversion market and it's great to see you have the same thought! I actually have a small stockpile of older outboards that I have conversion plans for. Do you know other boating enthusiasts who might be interested in such conversions? I'd love to get their feedback as well.

@Firstglassproject and @jbcurt00
Batteries and longevity are probably the most scrutinized aspect of electrification in the both the marine and automotive worlds. Battery characteristics will generally be optimized to a consumer's preferences. Similar to how you can change the size of a gas tank, you can stack batteries together for a longer range. The German company, Torqeedo, has an at-speed range of 10-15 nautical miles with a 330-pound battery pack. Our goals would be at least this metric. Charging also varies with power source (110V vs 220V, etc.). We envision both a fast charger and slow charger setup, a slow charger that could be solar powered and a fast charger that can be powered directly from high-power outlets, ideally charging the batteries in under an hour. In terms of temperature, we are exploring different charging methods that reduce heat production, as well as the possibility of integrated cooling methods.

@Kerry
I don't have additional pics with me at the moment but I can certainly dig some up for you! Total weight of outboard 60 pounds, peak power production of 30 HP, champion hotrod lower unit, batteries were Enerdel Lithium-ion batteries and weighed about 100 pounds. It would run for about 20 minutes at moderate speeds before we saw any power fading.

Thanks again for the feedback and we are always open to advice and criticism!

Best,

Ben

Price? Cost? I'm surprised no one else asked. You folks must all have a lot more cash than me!

Frank

Unless it can power me all day (at least 3 or 4 operating hours, I see no viability. Most boat enthusiasts will want to be able to play, tow, and ski. Until that can be accomplished (fuel cell), it will only be a niche market. If it ran all day and cost close to conventional I would be all over it. I do, however, wish you much success!

@PC1000

Up front cost, naturally more expensive due to the batteries. Right now, Torqeedo lists their 40 HP at $21,999 and their 12.8kWh battery at 16,500. While long term savings can be significant (no more expensive marine gas, less maintenance), we still think that is too expensive. So our price goals will certainly be lower than that for a comparable system.

@73Crestliner

I totally understand the wanting to go out and play for 3-4 hours. Right now it is a very niche market, but we're hoping to expand that market. For reference, how fast does your boat burn gas at WOT?

I can also relate to your previous comment about loving these old boats because they aren't electric. I have a merc 1000 on a 1961 G3 and love the roar of that thing. What I don't love about it, is it's reliability, or lack thereof. I am really drawn to the electric because of its reliability. I was once told that the most expensive aspect of any product, is the cost to the owner when the product isn't working, and electric drives the potential for this type of cost way down.

Another niche market exists because there are a significant number of lakes and waterways that have bans on gas engines, we're focusing on that one too

-Ben

solarsplash.com/

Can anything be learned/gleaned from what has been going on here for years?

Just remember this from years ago. Maybe sharing research can speed up your overall efforts. My apologies for not knowing if it is relevant in any way.

Best of luck,
Mark
p.s. I always wondered about safety if you sink a boat. Does everyone wear a rubber wetsuit and gloves, or is it pretty safe and all sealed from contact?

Funny you should mention Torqeedo, that's what is left of the Humber Boat Co. ! I was researching my 1960 Humber Regal and discovered the company now makes electric motors.

@Dr. Go,

Thanks for the link! I've looked at the Solar Splash stuff before. While much of it is very different from what we're working on, there is still quite a bit of overlap. It's interesting to read the team's technical reports on their websites. In terms of safety, there are sensors on the battery enclosures that will essentially isolate all high voltage inside the pack in case of a sinking event, so no rubber wetsuits needed!

@NJtriton,

Sent you a private email/DM, not sure if it went to Spam.

Best,
Ben

Thanks for the reply/update. I like to learn any chance I get. Good luck going forward! Interesting thread and subject.