TOPIC: Repair 1959 Johnson outboard in metro-west Boston?

Hi all. I'm wondering if you can help steer me on this...

Bought a 1965 Starcraft Arrow last year with a 1959 Johnson Super Seahorse 35 on it. Motor runs, but under-performs. My plan is to restore the boat and motor, but over a period of several years. Meantime, I'd like to be using the boat for family vacation time this summer. Novice boat owner.

I need to decide between these options. What would you do?

1. Fix myself. I'm learning as I go and not afraid to get in fairly deep. Takes time and I'm not boating with my family while this is happening -- especially if it's more extensive than replacing impeller, lower-unit lubricant, clean/soak/rebuild carb, etc.

2. Find a local shop to get it done properly and quickly. Recommendations? I'm outside of Boston. Worried about cost.

3. Get another motor as a stand-in so I can play while I work on the older motor myself. A late 60's or 70's 40HP would be a good fit... but I need to find one that runs really well and isn't too much $. There's a risk of getting back into the same place with another motor that needs TLC. Don't see much on CL at the moment. Other places to look/go?

Issues with the 35:

- Motor starts every time and idles OK in general
- Have not checked compression yet (but bought a tester)
- Motor doesn't push the boat fast enough to plane. It plows along at slow speed with throttle all the way up.
- Doesn't seem to wind-up to what I would expect is full throttle. Throttle mechanisms seem to work OK. I can push it further at the carb. Have checked spark/advance preventer mechanism and it seems to work properly.
- Forward controls are stiff and don't work well. I'm replacing the box with a tooth/rack model. Throttle control on the motor is not smooth. Shifter sometimes seems to not want to to go / jam. Cables pull loose in box as a result.... control box has been opened and fixed alot!
- When running, more smoke / oil in the water than what I expect (running 24:1 which is perhaps too much oil). This may be normal.
- Motor lower unit seems to jump/bang on transom every 60 seconds or so when running at full speed (like I'm gently bumping a submerged root). Could be gearing issue in lower unit? Clutch dog...

Anyway... I appreciate any guidance you could provide...

if it was me I would look at the plugs and see if its firing on all cylinders. that would account for the slow rpm and not giting up on plane. Bob

Sounds like it's running on one cylinder and the shift dog may be in bad shape. Or shift adjustments need attention.

It's hard to find a shop that works on these old motors. It's best to learn how to do it yourself.

VinTinFan wrote:

It's best to learn how to do it yourself.

This was my instinct as well. Maybe I keep looking for another motor while doing it. Thanks.

badger bob wrote:

if it was me I would look at the plug

I was thinking this... back to the compression test first. Maybe I keep looking for another motor while doing it.

sounds like running on one cylinder. you're not at all likely to find a reasonable repair place in metro west boston. if you get up to new hampshire at all i know a guy in central NH who might work on the motor for you- PM me if you get up there at all. when i lived in NH he did all my motors. very competent. as REASONABLE as you'll find.

your motor sounds stiff from sitting. the mag plate probably needs cleaning off underneath it and a new dab of grease to make sure it slides. definitely check to see if the mag plate is worn out- not all that likely. ditto for greasing up all through throttle / mag parts- some just need grease on cogs and there might be a zerk fitting in there.

if you're looking to make a golden era motor reliable once again it's a pretty well set routine

1) new coils
2) new condensors- they can only load up and dump so many times before they get weak
3) carburetor kit- if you get omc system matched / bombardier you get a new float too. i think sierra even has a new float in the big twin carb kits
4) lower unit seal kit- just do it- odds are fishing line is around your prop shaft seal and has damaged it and your shift shaft seal probably doesn't have long to go before it leaks
5) INSPECT water pump- if the plate / housing is worn go with a kit. if not then just an impeller
6) NEW gas line that is ethanol resistant
7) NEW fuel pump diaphragm

this is really basic stuff- all wear and replace parts, all out there cheap, but getting less cheap as our currency inflates. OMC just raised their parts prices 30% from what i hear....

the above is what i do to every motor that i plan on keeping. i have done less to some of my motors that are in my collection and gotten away with it but it's not really worth the risk of getting stuck on the water. lots of sketchy scenarios like especially if a storm is rolling in and you have to GO, etc.

hope this helps. i used to work on them as a kid but forgot most everything i knew and am too busy to wrench myself so i try to find guys who are still working on the old two strokes. don't even bother taking it to a big name marina. they will send you right back out the door or start with something ridiculous like 500 bucks just to look at it with a blood curdling hourly labor rate and they go to a book that tells them it takes 1 hour to merely look at the motor and 3 hours to pull the flywheel, etc.

i have a 1974 evinrude norseman that's been all gone through. wasn't all that jazzed up about selling it. not sure you'd want to buy a motor all gone through just to go through another motor anyway.

Squirrel. Before spending lots of hard earned cash on replacing everything check your cut out switch. Simple to work on and inspect. It's function is to prevent the motor from over revving when not under load. It does this by cutting spark to one cylinder, works on vacuum. Google/Bing Johnson RDS-20 for info.
Try disconnecting the two wires that short out the magneto, let them hang loose and start you motor again..Just a suggestin.

jon_a wrote:

OMC just raised their parts prices 30% from what i hear....

:

As the parts manager at the 3rd oldest Evinrude dealer in the US I can tell you this is not true.

Typically there are price file updates spring & fall. Some prices go up and yes some even go down. The industry is trending towards changing the mark-ups. Small parts like O-rings & gaskets are seeing larger mark-ups and some complete assemblies are seeing price reductions. Again, this is industry wide, not exclusive to BRP.

Regarding your engine issues:

The thumping is worn shift dog & FWD gear. Adjusting the cables will most likely do nothing. Replacing parts is the only real cure.

Poor running can be fuel, spark or worn out engine (unlikely). Verify spark at cranking speed 1st. While doing so, wiggle the plug wires where the emerge from under the flywheel. Each time you advance the throttle, the mag plate rotates under the flywheel & the plug wires have a habit of failing where they emerge. So it is common to have the wires break down & give intermittent spark.

If you remove the flywheel, replace the points/condensers & coils unless they are brand new from the prior owner.

Cut-out switch can cause issues but I bet any spark issues are under the flywheel.

Don't start buying parts until you have troubleshoot all problems.

on some older motors if the original coils have never been replaced they probably need to be. Old coil outer material, cracks and cause shorts. As for the banging it is a lower unit gear problem. The dogs on the forward gear get worn to a point where it keeps jumping in and out of gear. The problem stems from the motor not idled down enough at the time of shifting into forward gear. This can be from several things, but usually by a motor not running properly so it is idled faster than it should and the operator slaming into forward. I learned a trick many years ago that works on some of the older Johnson and Rude motors. Take the lower unit apart and inspect the gears and dogs. On these motors the forward and reverse gears are the same. However they have different part numbers do to the forward gear having a bushing installed. If you remove the bushing, the gears are the same. Since reverse is never used anywhere near as much as forward, this gear and its dogs is usually in much better shape. Install the bushing in the reverse gear and switch the reverse gear for the forward gear. This usually solves the problem with very little cost, unit seal and new grease. Hope this helps