TOPIC: 1959 Glastron Surf-flite Newbie Restoration...

So I was able to get a very cool boat for free from a family member this week, a 1959 Glastron Surf-flite with what looks to be an old Montgomery Ward Sea King Forty or Fifty, I am not sure . I really want to restore the boat and it is in desperate need of lots of repairs and restoration. I was wondering if y'all could give me some advice on what to be on the look out for and maybe where to start and if I should have the boat re-gelcoated or try and use some sort of marine epoxy paint or something like that? I am fairly handy but I have never worked on a boat before so I am a complete newbie on this front

Cool boat! I tackled my first project this summer. You'll find lots of information in the forum, and lots of helpful people with tons of experience. I used Rustoleum Top Coat on our boat, but there are a number of options. Enjoy your project!

I think you have come to the right place for information and help in your pursuit of restoring the Glastron. You will also find a supportive group of people to make you feel less alone in this process.

You have chosen what looks to be a nice candidate for restoration.
Nearly all of the questions you will have about restoring the boat have been asked many times before on this forum. By using the site search feature, you can tap the archives of the message boards for answers to your questions. There is an absolute pile of information contained in the archives - use them to your advantage.

As tempting it may be right now to think about making the boat pretty, you want to check the structure of the boat before anything else. Chances are very high that the plywood reinforcing under the fiberglass is on the way to being rotted, or it is completely rotted.

Replacing transom wood and structural members is one of the most intimidating and least fun part of the restoration process. The payback is a solid boat that performs as good as it looks.

The motor was made my OMC, the builder of Johnson & Evinrude motors. it is either a 25, 30, or 35 HP. Parts are all over the place for that motor, and they were very rugged and reliable. Your boat should have at least 35HP and somewhere between 50 to 65 hp would be ideal. 35 may be a bit weak if you have a load of passengers and an ice chest aboard.

gmhall87,

WELCOME ABOARD. = NICE Glastron. - I think that your SEA KING outboard is a 40HP.
(Almost all the internal parts are interchangeable with the Johnson & Evinrude.)

yours, satx

Welcome aboard great boat! The motor will be easy to work on but I'm with Bruce and you'll probably want something like a 60hp or a little larger.

Bob

Yea Bruce the floor is definitely rotted out and will need to be replaced so I assume that the stringers will also need some work and maybe replaced and all will need lots of refiberglassing. I have seen some stuff on line where people take the tops of the boats off and work on both sides but I didn't even know they could come off until today. I agree with you, before anything I want to make sure that once the boat is restored it is done right and won't need to much work again in the future.

And I guess the hard part for the motor is that I want a period correct motor that looks classic, I feel like I can't out a newer motor on there without killing the classic feel of the boat

Thanks satx! Does that mean that works On a Johnson will more than likely work on this motor? I won't need to find this specific brand's parts?

Thanks Bob for the input! Will there be a motor that I should avoid or is to big and heavy that could weigh down the back of the boat and make it set unlevel in the water?

gmhall87,

Fwiw, IF it was my boat I'd find & install a matched PAIR of restorable 1959 OMC 35HP outboards by Johnson, Evinrude, Sea King or Gale.
(I just looked it up & the Fireflite will easily handle 70HP.)

A hint: Virtually ALL of the interior parts of the 35HP OMC outboards interchange.
(Also, SIERRA PARTS, sold by NAPA AUTO PARTS stores, sell all the parts that you'll need for the OMC BigTwins.)

yours, satx

or just one 70 hp Mercury Mark 78A. That Sea King, while a nice little motor, is probably not quite enough for that boat. And while OMC parts are easily available, there is almost nothing you can't find for a Merc either. Some people say they are too complicated to work on, I argue that point all day long as I'm not that smart and I work on them all the time. A Merc is usually going to be lighter and faster than a comparable OMC motor and unless it's 1956-58 Johnson big twin or a 1958 fat fifty Johnson (which is a crappy but great looking motor) much better looking also.

That's a very cool boat, but your in for some work. Looks like it's sat out in the weather for some time. But many of us have been there. While I feel that there are quite a few boats that if that rough, not worth the effort of a full blown restoration, but that one is.

gmhall87; ggreggc,

Greg is correct about the MK78a (I used to have a pair of them on my ski-boat) but there is little question that the Mercury is more expensive to buy, MUCH harder to work upon, need a LOT of "special"/expensive tools to repair properly & the parts aren't usually available at a low price.

There's NOT a thing wrong with the MK78A, IF you are a mechanic and/or have $$$$$$$$.

just my opinion, satx

Hi gmhall87
Besides asking questions here ?
Go to boatworkstoday.com for real nice videos to take the fear out of a restore. Remember don't look at the big project. do one little piece at a time, that way you won't be overwhelmed ! Great folks here. No question is too simple or stupid. We all start somewhere !!!

Chuck in Cincinnati,

EXACTLY CORRECT.

yours, satx

There is nothing wrong with a Mark 78A period. Whenever Mercury is brought up, you can count on satx to cut them down. Check out the Merc forum on this site and make up your own mind. It's the most popular motor section on this website. The parts are almost as easily available as OMC, anybody with an internet connection can find them. A couple special tools needed to take apart the lower units, which can be easily made or found or sometimes not even needed. I'm not a wealthy person and have no problems affording Merc parts. There are also some very smart Merc people that frequent this forum.

BTW I bought 4 Mercury's this year and have owned more a dozen, most being the Mark or Merc series. Sold 1, parted 1, restoring 1, with another in line. The most expensive was $100. The cheapest was $50 and that's the one I'm restoring. I have another $100 in parts into it including paint. It's nearly done, but I'll wait till spring to finish it up. I already know it runs great. Could have bought a nice Mark 78A for $125 but it's just too big for the boat I have now. And this is in rural Minnesota. They are out there if one looks.

ggreggc,

You're certainly right about one thing: I frequently tell "beginners" to leave the mercury OBs to talented mechanics, as I don't know enough to work on them myself & seriously doubt if most beginners in outboards can either.

Fyi, you need about 150.oo (or less) in parts & 50 bucks worth of tools to work on any 1955-70 OMC BigTwin.

Furthermore, NO marine mechanics here in Bexar County will work on an older Mercury, as they fear that they won't get paid after the work is done & the big bill is presented to the customer.
(Around San Antonio, the "going price" for a decent outboard mechanic is about 90.oo per hour plus parts at full retail.)

Btw, I know of several FREE antique Mercury OBs, within 50 miles, that are FREE if anyone wants them.

just my OPINION, satx

I never had any experience with outboards until I purchased my 70 Glastron with a 65 Merc 500. I guess I was a 'beginner'. I have done all the work on the motor myself and it hasn't been difficult or expensive. I even picked up another 68 Merc 500 powerhead for free and got it up and running, after I tracked down a lower unit on EBAY. The cooling passages were clogged to the telltale so I had to clean them out and replace the gaskets between the exhaust cover/baffle plate and block. To do this I had to remove a bunch of components including the powerhead. On my 65 Merc 500, I replaced the lower unit seals, including the one at the base of the water pump, installed a Time-Sert for damaged spark plug threads. Also, replaced points, rebuilt carbs, fuel-pump and some wiring. Numerous other things too. Only technical assistance was an online manual I downloaded. Go figure.
I wouldn't trade my sweet running and awesome looking Mercs for anything.

Well apparently mine is a 40HP, which is nice. But that idea of 2 matching motors is awesome. I think that would be awesome to have and 80HP would scoot that boat across the water just fine.

However, how would I rig the steering and throttle cables to control both units at the same time?

gmhall87 - can you give us your proper first name - it would be helpful in responding to you and make it a bit more personal.

I don't want to get into a pissing match with anyone here, and as you can see in this thread, everyone has an opinion. So along with all of the good, you will sometimes see a few folks sparring off on differing opinions. It's usually all in fun, as long as we all try to not take ourselves too seriously.

So - given that intro - here is my opinion on the motor situation

The transom on your boat will fit a single motor nicely, while I'm unsure if it is capable of holding two. This is due to the width of the transom and splashwell. While twin motors look really cool, they have some drawbacks. They are never as fast as a single motor of equal HP. You have more weight with twin motors, than with a single motor of equal HP (as long as the larger motor isn't a 4 cycle) You have twice the maintenance requirement. Twins usually will burn more fuel than a single engine of equal HP.

A good thing about twin engines is that if one motor breaks, you have the other (hopefully) to get you home.

Twin engines were popular before the days of high horsepower engines (back then high HP was 50 and over) after that, the use of twins on small craft dropped off sharply.

Run whatever motor you want. I would avoid a Scott McCullough motor only because parts are nearly impossible to find.

Even the best brand or model of motor is only as good as it's condition. A motor as old as your boat is bound to have all sorts of problems, unless someone has kept it maintained and in perfect running shape. That is often not the case.

The 40 on your boar (if running correctly) will scoot it around pretty nicely. I will probably cruise great at about 22 mph and full tilt might bring 27mph. If you want more umph than that - I would start looking for a motor of 50 to 75 ponies.

If you are handy and can do repair and maintenance on the motor, then that will be a huge asset. Running a vintage motor that you aren't capable of working on is a gamble. it may be difficult for you to find someone to work on an antique engine if you can't - it it could cost you a bundle.

As for now - I know that you bigger fish to fry than the engine anyway - as it's going to take some tearing out of the old structure and replacing it first. If you want to look for another motor, this is the time to do it - you boat isn't going anywhere for a while Take your time and look for a cream puff motor if you need one.

satx78247 wrote:

ggreggc,

You're certainly right about one thing: I frequently tell "beginners" to leave the mercury OBs to talented mechanics, as I don't know enough to work on them myself & seriously doubt if most beginners in outboards can either.

Fyi, you need about 150.oo (or less) in parts & 50 bucks worth of tools to work on any 1955-70 OMC BigTwin.

Furthermore, NO marine mechanics here in Bexar County will work on an older Mercury, as they fear that they won't get paid after the work is done & the big bill is presented to the customer.
(Around San Antonio, the "going price" for a decent outboard mechanic is about 90.oo per hour plus parts at full retail.)

Btw, I know of several FREE antique Mercury OBs, within 50 miles, that are FREE if anyone wants them.

just my OPINION, satx

That's right, YOUR OPINION. Many would argue the point. I can find beat up FREE froze up motors anywhere. Sometimes it's worth it for parts or scrap value. Plenty of them out there of ALL brands. Never came across any of the experiences you have. Anytime I 've had a marine mechanic look at any of my Merc's, because my boat was sitting in the parking lot while I came for whatever, the only thing out of their mouths is if I want to sell it.

Back to the OP,
That Sea King is a nice motor, if it's decent internally, it can surely do as you look for bigger motor should you choose to. As you can see from this pissing match I'm in with satx, I love Mercurys. But there is nothing wrong with a big twin OMC. Your motor is identical to a Gale Sovereign, except for the color and is a very desirable motor. Even if you get a bigger one, you may want to keep it. Or it should be quite easy to sell to the right person.

That's a great engine, and as mentioned, the Gales look identical other than color & emblems, and there are very few, if any, differences. You can usually find another gale or sea king occasionally on ebay or craigslist in your local area. If you keep the cable steering, the steering controls are easy to do. the harder thing will be getting a dual controller for the engines. If you go to a push pull system for steering, a little more difficult, but not much. You look as if you'd have room to do doubles, easy way to tell is that, center to center you will need 20 - 22 inches (original OMC said 20, but I've seen up to 22 with no differences) and room for engines to go to full turn both ways.

But, as mentioned, you have a lot of work to do before you get there!

Al T.

I have been fooling around with small outboards for many years. I would ask that someone have me locked up if I even thought about putting two motors on a small boat. They look so cool but will be twice the hassle of one. I would consider having a small "kicker" along with a single of adequate-size.

The motor debate can go on forever. Your boat is rated for 70 hp and was designed to accommodate twins. Steering is handled by a bar tying the two together and throttles & shift by twin control unit. ( sorry, don't have a pic of the steering hooked up )

However, as mentioned, much to do before you get to the motors. I would suggest you remove the deck and replace all wood, as I'm sure you'll find it rotten. Then, after lunch you can start on the motors LOL

Cheers

Bill

ggregc,

Fyi, I don't consider myself being in a "match" (of any sort) with you or anyone else. - Nonetheless, I think that my advice to 90% of beginners is sound.

May I also remind you that the Mercury mechanics that you say want to buy your old Mercs ARE outboard mechanics, I'm definitely NOT & am NOT interested in becoming a mechanic.
(Truthfully, I want OB motors that you don't have to be a talented mechanic to work on & after they are renovated with run for years with little more than clean fuel & a fresh water-pump impellor. - That's why I leave every other OB to others except the OMC BigTwins.)

just my OPINION, satx

Bruce Gerard,

The late '50s & early '60s Glastrons were designed for a pair of OBs OR a single larger OB. = They run fine with a pair of 35-40 OBs or a Mark 78.
(In my misspent youth in Northeast TX I knew many people who were running pairs of BigTwins on Glastrons of that period & some of those rigs are still around up there on Lake of the Pines, Caddo, Lone Star Lake & on some the other newer/larger lakes.)

Finding dual controls for a pair of OMC motors is NOT hard either, though they may cost as much as a good-running BigTwin does.
(I'm currently looking for a pair of BOSON dual controls to match a pair of 1961 Gale 40 Sovereigns, that I have "squirreled away" to power a Carter-Craft 17 foot runabout.)

yours, satx