TOPIC: 2 cycle fuel and oil

A pair of really basic questions. Is there an additive that will compensate for lack of lead and addition of ethanol in modern gasoline? I know there are a lot of options at the auto parts store, but I don't know if they actually do anything.
Also, the manual for my 1949 Champion calls for non-detergent sae 30 oil in the fuel mix, how does that compare to what's packaged as 2 cycle oil?

I highly recommend this additive for ethanol fuel. I'd also recommend getting online to see if there are any REAL gas distributors in your area.

www.goldeagle.com/STA-BIL360-Performance-Campaign?gclid=CKv6-pWt58YCFQoLaQod0QICNg&gclsrc=aw.ds

I used to run a 1962 Evinrude that called for the 30 weight oil also. I used it with no adverse effects. You can use the new modern 2 cylce oil too and pay the additional price but...I see no reason to do so with the older motors. They were designed to run with the 30 weight and will do so very well.

Dave I have a 4hp champion. and ive run a lot of 30 wt oil in it. but the new tcw3 cant be beat. I wont run the stuff that comes I the little bottles. I run the stuff that comes in qts. ive had this motor sence 1970 and it has never faled me. as for the lead I don't think that it makes a difernce as long as its not ethanol. and I may be wrong on all this but this is what works for me. Bob

Thanks for the input. I have a bottle of 2 cycle oil for my weed eaters, chain saw, etc. It appears to be much thinner than 30w, that's what made me question it's use.

There's no need for any sort of lead additive, in fact back in the 60's Merc recommended running their motors on "white gas". The lead raised octane, but fuel is blended completely different now, without lead. So your octane is sufficient, in most cases, without tetraethyl lead additives.

TCW-3 oil is appropriate for all Mercurys at a 50:1 mix, according to a TSB the factory put out years ago. This excludes racing motors, of course, which run much more oil in the fuel.

The problem with using 30W car oil is that it doesn't have the correct additives to use in any 2-stroke outboard. The only reason it was used in the past is 'cause they didn't have anything better.

You'll get a lot more carbon deposits using that oil. Which means stuck rings, plugged ports, poor running, etc.

TCW-3 oil typically has additives that promote clean-burning, while providing superior lubrication. The viscosity coming out of the bottle isn't an indication of its lubricating qualities when mixed with fuel.

That being said, any older outboard which have a babbit surface on any rotating element, must be run at a richer oil ratio than, for example, a Mercury "Fully Jeweled" motor. For example, a 1957 7.5 Evinrude that I recently resurrected over at the Doc's still requires a richer oil mix, even though we're using TCW-3. All the crank journals and rods are running on babbit or bronze bushings and these just need more oil.

If you do run 30W you'll have to mix it at the mfr's original recommened ratios as well. I would run a dose of Seafoam carbon-cleaning additive (or Techron, Ring-Free, Carbon-Guard, etc), and conduct regular cleaning sessions with Seafoam/Deep Creep, to keep the engine's innards clean. I've see so many old engines in the past full of carbon deposit from use of poor-quality or improper oil.

Just my $.02..........ed

VintageDave wrote:

Thanks for the input. I have a bottle of 2 cycle oil for my weed eaters, chain saw, etc. It appears to be much thinner than 30w, that's what made me question it's use.

BTW, 2-cycle air-cooled-rated oil is much different than TCW-3 outboard oil and shouldn't be used in an outboard. Conversely, it ain't recommended to use TCW-3 in air-cooled engines, either.

Although I cheated and ran my old weedwacker on TCW-3 and it didn't seem to hurt it! But for any equipment you value, using the oil rated for the engine's properties will give much better service....ed

I guess I'll be buying a bottle of TCW-3 this week. Should I mix it to the ratio recommended on the motor or to the ratio indicated on the oil bottle? (If different)

I don't know if the little Champion had all-needle-bearing construction on the rotating innards. You might be able to tell by analyzing a parts breakdown of the powerhead (if you can find one!)

Probably best to follow mfr's fuel/oil ratio instructions when dealing with "antique" outboards.

If you use a premium oil, it'll smoke less. Definitely a good idea to run Seafoam with a rich-oil mix, even when using TCW-3. That'll keep the carbon buildup at a minimum.

These guys claim their oil is "smokeless":

lucasoil.com/products/2-cycle-oil/lucas-2-cycle-land-sea-oil-tc-w3

A full synthetic oil will smoke less, generally. Have seen lots of good comments on Penzoil full synthetic.

I found plenty of different brands & types at my local Walmart.

Cheers........ed

Ditto on what Ed wrote. My guess is that the '49 Champion is a bushing / babbit bearing engine, which means it's going to need a lot of oil to survive modern fuels. I'd take a guess at 24:1 ratio, which actually might not be enough!

Some of the very old ones ran on 16:1 and I bet they smoked a lot when all they had was 30W oil to mix with the fuel!

Edit: Check out this Blue Ribbon nameplate I found in an eBay listing. I think it comes out to be around 12:1 !!! :0

Same label as mine. During the break in period it was even higher. Have to admit though, if it's still running after 65 years they were doing it right.

With a motor that old I would use something like Quicksilver Premium PLUS or Pennzoil Premium Plus at 25:1. 1 pint of oil to 3 gallons of gas. And something like Quicksilver Quicklean or Seafoam at 1 oz per gallon of gas. And Stabil Marine, the blue stuff, or, my fave, Star-Tron as per label directions and a little extra won't hurt.

Best of luck and I'd love to find something like that to build a little 8 footer for.

Glasstream15,

WELCOME ABOARD.

PM me & I'll tell you about one that I know of sale near The Alamo City.

yours, satx

1960 Johnson 75hp Super Sea Horse:

Ran yesterday a very unscientific test with Lucas TCW3 at 48:1 (1pt:6gal) and I felt it wasn't as smooth as before. Added enough to take it to something closer to 24-30:1 and we felt it ran a bit smoother.

Ocean was way too rough to do any really high speed running, so no definitive answer yet. However, I'm going to take two tanks next time: one @ 36:1 and one @ 24:1. Hoping for flat seas.

Paul

Check and see who has alcohol free gas near you. pure-gas.org/

You may find that you need to adjust the high-speed mixture needles for best operation after changing your fuel-oil mix.

When you go from a rich-oil mix to leaner-mix, you've effectively given your engine more fuel and as you found, doesn't run as well.

It shouldn't take much of an adjustment but you may find it runs better after "tweaking" it in a bit.

HTH.......ed

I am running a RDS-25D. In the past, when I could find it in my area, I ran Amsoil Sabre 100:1 @ 40:1. This year I am running Pennsoil Semi-Synthetic. Dropped down to 35:1 because I don't know as much about this product. Never thought about running seafoam ( I do in my bike). I kind of remember reading about different bearings in different manufacturers from the late 50's to the mid 60's. Where does a RDS-25D stand?

A 1963 40hp Big Twin will run just fine on 50:1. The powerhead construction is "fully jeweled" with roller or needle bearings on all surfaces, so there's no worry about inadequate lubrication to babbitted bearing surfaces.

www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1963&hp=40&model=RD-25&manufacturer=Johnson§ion=Crankshaft+Group

HTH.......ed

I agree with ed-mc. 50:1 should be fine. That's what I ran on my Lark IV and she did GREAT!!!! I played with the High Speed and Low Speed Jets to get her fine tuned and when I did she purred like a kitten.