TOPIC: How to change out a CDI system

Thought I'd start out a new thread.
I want to change my 1967 100 hp Johnson with a CDI to a conventional ignition system. Everyone says it's an easy change but no one comes up with a step by step process or parts needed. I'll start out with some pictures and hope someone jumps in and tags along with info.
Cal

Popped the cap off for a look see.

Found one dehydrated mouse.

Belt was a little frayed on the lower edge

The distributer plate and stuff.

The CDI pack and stuff I want to replace.

I picked up a new set of points and a condenser part numbers were for a 1966 100 hp this afternoon. Now what do I do with them and how are they mounted in the dist? I will need to pick up a coil probably from Auto Zone this weekend.

A 66 model would have 2 sets of points.

Take a look at these 2 different distributor diagrams, one for your '67-100hp and the 2nd for a '66-100hp with conventional ignition:

www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1967&hp=100&model=V4T-13&manufacturer=Johnson§ion=Distributor+Group

www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1966&hp=100&model=278787&manufacturer=Evinrude§ion=Distributor+Group

You'll note that the distributor drive shaft (part #10 on the diagram) is the same for both points & CDI models. So, you'd have to pull all the nasty CDI stuff off the shaft, and slide a points cam (part #35) onto the shaft.

You also need the baseplate for the std-ign model, since the plates do have different part numbers, and mount their respective parts differently (part #14 on the diagram).

You'd then of course need the various screws etc that mount the std ign hardware to the plate. The most important of these are the eccentric adjusters for the points (part #11). The other stuff is just standard hardware. There's a "wavy washer" (part #18) under each adjuster screw.

Far as the coil goes, Way Back When, my good boating buddy was running a "FrankenRude" (apologies to the Good Doc FrankenMerc!) 90hp V-4 on a '66 100hp midsection, and found that it ran loads better with a Mallory Supercoil. Lots of spark energy and it fixed the cranky starting & poor idling, amongst other things. The 4-bbl carbs are touchy and he found that the simple addition of an inexpensive inline fuel filter solved a lot of issues. It was one of the best running old V-4's I'd ever seen, and was Almost as fast as my old "hopped-up" 850-6 with 100hp carbs.

Anyway, back to the ign! The original points ign used a built-in resistor ballast wire, with a non-resistor coil. You won't wanna mess with that resistor wire. A ballast resistor would be better than that old stuff.

Best bet for your mod is a "mild performance" internal-ballast coil, which would connect directly to the switched +12V power for your current CDI setup.

If you happened to find a good deal on an externally-ballasted coil, that would work as well, you'd just have to find a place to mount the ballast resistor.

If you get a round automotive coil, you should be able to use the existing coil bracket. If that bracket won't quite fit, a universal coil mounting bracket should be adaptable.

Those are the main "points", as I recall. I did one of these conversions years ago, but was lucky enough to have a parts distributor to draw from. You might be able to find a useable points distributor or used parts on eBay.

HTH..........ed

Here's one on eBay, looks like everything you'd need:



Here's one a bit cheaper that looks like it should be the correct one, but there's no pic of the innards. A simple inquiry to the seller could clarify:



And a few more!





There ya go, parts galore! Might be cheaper than trying to piecemeal one together.

HTH..........ed

Professor, Ed-MC. I could kiss you, (NOT REALLY). The info on both your posts was useful. I bought one of the units for the 4 banger, seemed to have all the parts I would need. If something is missing I'll just have to go back to the ebay well.
Thanks.

Cal,

You want a Pertronix "Flame Thrower" 3 Ohm Epoxy coil. Don't get the chrome ones, you want the Epoxy one. Get the 3 Ohm primary winding. This will prevent you from needing a ballast resistor. I actually converted the points disto on my Starflite to a pertronix ignitor and the flame thrower coil. The engine goes like a bat out of hell, and it idles wonderfully without loading up. The ignitor conversion was straight forward and very clean after I had figured out how I was going to do it. The conventional points work fine, it's just that the OEM ones are getting expensive and hard to find. The cheap-o points from aftermarket sources often have misalignment issues.

There is not a Pertronix kit for these engines - I had to get one for a small 4 cylinder Autolite distributor and used only the parts that I needed. I turned down the points cam in my friend's lathe until the pertronix magnet ring could be fit onto it. I then mounted the ignitor module onto the base plate - much like the sensor on your CDI distributor. The most tricky part was getting the alignment of the magnet ring in the correct location for TDC. Once I achieved that, I pressed the magnet ring onto the milled down cam.

The weekend was filled with family doings, grandkids track an volleyball tourneys etc. Was pleasantly surprised when I returned home. In the mail was the distributor I bought on eBay. That was fast! I think it has everything I need to start the changout. I'll need to pick up one more set of points I can get at NAPA.

Here's the "new" old eBay distributor

Comparison of the two.

Bruce,
I checked out the petronix site and found this:
Flame-Thrower Coil
Black
Epoxy-Filled
40,000 Volt Output
1.5 Ohm Primary Resistance

Jegs had the 28,000 volt and the 40,000 volt. Which one did you use?

Both run about $40.

Here's what I found on eBay.

Bruce, Will I need to get a different stator? Looking at the schematics for both the '66 and '67, the '66 has four leads coming off, the '67 has two leads. Two of them go to the rectifier one goes to the regulator and the other goes to the ignition "on" light.
The '67 wire going to the regulator has the 20 amp fuse. What did you do for this?
Here's what I've come up with so far.

Install the distributor assembly
Attach ground wire
Black wire goes to coil negative and also splits off to temperature cutoff switch (assuming this shuts motor down if it over heats)
Positive pole of coil goes to ignition switch
Large wire of coil to distributor (of course)

Stator assembly
Two wires to rectifier
One of those wires splits and goes to regulator

Capacitor wire goes to gen side of ammeter

Regulator assembly
One wire goes to ignition switch
One wire goes to fused connection from stator

Ignition “on” light can stay as is.

Cal

As of today I think I have all the parts required except for a 0.8 ohm ballast resistor, distributor, two NOS point sets, and a new MSD Blaster coil. The coil came from a local speed shop. Had to go to two different dealers for the point sets, drained their last ones.

The MSD blaster low vibration, epoxy filled...

Primary resistance: .7 OHMs
Secondary resistance: 4.5K OHMs
Inductance: 8 mH
Maximum voltage: 45,000 Volts
Peak current: 140 mA
Spark duration: 350 uS

Cal,

Your engine is a 1967 and the stator and flywheel were only used for that year. You don't need to do anything with the charging circuit, unless it wasn't working. Please realize that the under flywheel charging system has nothing to do with the ignition system on this engine. Your engine uses a simple 2 wire stator feeding into a full wave bridge rectifier. The negative output of the rectifier case is normally bolted to the engine block, serving as the ground. The positive terminal is normally fused to protect the charging circuit. The 1966 and earlier motors had the "unicharger" system that used 4 wires to the stator. This is a different deal all together. But again, the alternator for these motors is not part of the ignition system, they only serve to charge the battery.


As for the coil, I used a 3 Ohm Pertronix coil, because I didn't want to mess with a ballast resistor. Most VW shops should have this coil, as it's a popular one for dune buggies and sand rails.

vwparts.aircooled.net/Pertronix-Flamethrower-Ignition-Coil-Black-Epoxy-p/40611.htm

Bruce, thanks for all the helpful information, I finished up the changeover today and it was pretty straight forward. O'Reilly had the MSD .8 ohm resistor, I don't have any problems with that. I had a 2. , 1.4, and a .6 in my tool box but not the .8

Put in the new points, condenser, made up some new wires for all the stuff also. I followed the manual for timing, just aligning all the marks on the flywheel, water jacket cover, distributor pulley and bracket. Got about 3/8" flex on the belt. I set the points at .012. Not sure if this is correct, I'll have to do some checking on that. It sure did clean up the mess on the back of the motor. Maybe Friday evening I can attempt to start it and do the final adjustments. I'll post some pictures later.
thanks again.
Cal

Cal, the points set at .020. It is stamped on the point mount plate.jim

Thank yew...

wellcum

Sounds like good progress. Did you re use the ground wire that goes from the base plate to the engine bracket / engine block? This wire is visible in the pic comparing the two ignitions - it is at the far left of the photo. This keeps the electric current from having to travel through the needle bearing that the distributor swivels on. These wire are often trashed, and they need to be made of real flexible wire that can bend back and forth thousands of times without breaking. Since I work on electronics, I usually make these out of old test leads for my digital electronic meters. That test lead wire is super flexible stuff.

Yupper, I did use the ground wire. Here's a final picture, sure cleaned up that mess in the back. Thanks to all you guys for the help. Hopefully this is a more reliable assembly than a 47 year old CDI. And yes I did confuse the ignition and charging circuits good thing that was pointed out. Total cost for the change over. eBay distributor with shipping - $55. .8 ohm MSD ballast resistor - $12. MSD 45,000 volt blaster coil with tax - $49. Condenser - $4. 2 Sets NOS points $52. So for roughly $170 I have a conventional ign system that's easy to maintain and half the cost of a black box replacement

cal, looks real good. now get it wet.lol greg

63 Sabre wrote:

So for roughly $170 I have a conventional ign system that's easy to maintain and half the cost of a black box replacement

And don't forget, your points-fired ignition system is EMP-Resistant, so as long as you have fuel available, you're set for boating after TSHTF!!!!!

Would what Cal done to his be a better hotter spark than a stock coil and resistor wire ? jim

Jim, I think probably yes. I'm going back a few years, well maybe more than a few. Getting zapped working on car systems and having my ..... knocked in the dirt from spark plug testing those coil outputs were mostly in the 30,000 volt range. This coil is 45,000 so it must put out a hotter spark. Before the change I just installed new NGK plugs, the surface kind because that's what the CDI system recommended. Now I think I'll have to get traditional gapped ones?? I don't know yet.

My '63 johnson 75 hp took a champion j4j which now is a j4c. Yours may take a j6c. Don't know for sure.

Surface-gap plugs have a very cold heat range, and longer reach. Champ L76V, far as I know, was the original plug and I imagine you're probably using NGK BUHW's in place of the Champ #.

So you couldn't use a J4C plug, too short.

The hotter coil might fire the surface-gap plugs OK, so maybe give 'em a try.

If it doesn't run right with surface-gaps, you'd need to use the equivalent of a J4C, but with 1/2" reach instead of 3/8" reach.

Note that the '66 motors did use J4C plugs but OMC must have changed the heads on the '67 100hp to account for use of the longer-reach surface-gap plugs.

L4J used to be the old long-reach plug, and an NGK B7HS would be the equivalent. As would an L82C Champion.

HTH..........ed

OK Ed, when I see a mushroom cloud I can keep right on fishing knowing the motor will start

After the Apocalypse, I think boating might be the last thing on our minds And you wouldn't want to eat the fish

The Pertronix ignitor module makes even a conventional coil produce a very powerful spark. It is more than enough to fire the surface gap plugs when matched with a good performance coil. The Ignitor module boosts the power to the coil primary, forcing the coil to kick a hotter spark. Most importantly, it triggers the coil very quickly and begins recharging the primary far faster than the conventional points can. A longer rise time will result in better core saturation when the field collapses, creating the spark. When I was getting the system set up on my Evinrude, I bench tested the setup before installing it. Using a power drill to turn the distributor, the spark was easily able to jump 2" or more, no matter how fast I spun the distributor. The drill maxed out at 3,000rpm - and at that speed, the spark jumping the gaps was solid white, looking a lot like the inner white flame in a welding torch. The NGK B7HS is a good suggestion plug for the 1967 and later heads with the longer reach. If they are too hot, you can use the next number cooler, or try the surface gap plugs.

Another problem just reared up. I attempted to start. Good news is I got a few farts which means everything is hooked up correctly, at least it's firing. I believe the timing is off now. I lined the marks up like the book says but something is still wrong. Any suggestions?
There are two marks on the distributor bracket, both labeled "points break" which means to me that at that point is where one set of points should begin to open. I cannot find anything labeled belt timing like on the cover and guard ring. The distributor belt pulley is clearly marked with a notch. One manual says to line up the pulley with the safety switch plunger but it seems that it lines up either one notch before the plunger or one notch after, I cannot get an exact lineup. So where do I line the pulley notch up?

I found the illusive timing mark on the distributor bracket. Just a single line hiding in the inner depths. I reset the timing, checked the point breaks and she fired right up instantly! Lots of smoke probably from the SeaFoam still working, the neighbors thought I was grilling out Lots of black carbon oozing from the exhaust also. After a few minutes of running she started loading up and fouling out the plugs. Must be the surface gap NGK that I put in there. I pulled all four and they were soaked with black oily fuel which is still probably from the SeaFoam. I'll pick up a set of regular plugs that you guys recommended tomorrow.

That's great Cal congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob

Glad you got her sorted out Cal, "I love the smell of two stroke oil in the morning - it smells like victory"! LOL

Sorta the same. Now I can get on to better things.

I put in the new NGK B7HS plugs, went down to the local boat landing and floated the boat. Motor started right up but bucked and snorted for awhile, smoked like crazy and then started to level out. After about five minutes it was purring like a tiger, even idled smooth. No more black gunk coming from the exhaust either.
Funny how what manifested itself as a fuel problem in the beginning turned out to be the faulty CDI.
Now to go buy bait

Cal,

you need to "read" the plugs to check on the heat range.

Run the boat on the water with the motor lid off. After the motor is fully warmed up, run her wide open in a straight line for about 60 seconds. Then rapidly pull the throttle to idle and immediately shut the motor off. let the boat coast to a stop. It is important to not let the engine idle during this process. You want to go from sustained wide open to a quick shut down. Let the engine cool for a bit while you fish, eat a snack, or drink a beer.

Crank the steering all the way to one side - which will make getting to one bank of spark plugs a little easier. Pull one plug at a time and inspect them. The porcelain should be tan appearing. If it is chalky white, the plugs are too hot.

PS - bring extra spark plugs in case some go in the drink. Same for your spark plug wrench. I'm too embarrassed to say how many tools I've lost overboard over the years.

Bruce, LOL. Sounds like a plan thanks. Working around heavy machinery my whole career with large water pits underneath I learned the hard way also to tie a string, leather thong etc. around the tool and my wrist

If it ain't cold, windy or raining some day I just might be able to do that drill.

Thank you for posting this thread. I am planning to do exactly what you posted because I have a bad CDI and didn't want to pony up money for a new one that I wouldn't trust.

Let me know if you need any help. I can send more pictures if you need them.
Motor runs fine now but I'm having an issue with powdery rust in the fuel tank that I'm working on. Had it on the water but couldn't open it up because the fuel filter kept plugging

A successful run today! Couldn't open 'er up because of chop but she idles in gear @2.5 mph (gps) without coughing. Added an inline canister fuel filter to help with the rust in the tank.

Very cool!!

Bob

Thanks Bob. Need to do some cleaning up under the thing now, sawdust and drill shavings. Takes lots of skill and perseverance and patience to pump the first flow of fuel through that thing, lots of air! I'll put an end to this thread but if someone needs help or info on the CDI changeover there is plenty available here from all our friends.
Cal