TOPIC: Wish me luck

Weather is finally beginning to turn in the frozen tundra. 50's for the next two days and sunny.
I'm going to attempt to start the 100hp Golden Meteor that's hanging on the back of my project Shell Lake.
I ebay-ed a shop manual supplement for this 1967 and coupled with my old Clymer manual I get a good knowledge of the electronics of this puppy. Still has the CD ignition and seems like all things meter out like they should. Some of the wiring is crispy from age and I used liquid tape to re-insulate them, everything seems to be looking good. One question I have is there is supposed to be a 20 amp fuse in line on the circuit and when I opened up the fuse holder there was 30 amp solid white, should I replace that one or be afraid of smoking some components? Not talking about the 20 amp fuse in the ignition circuit by the amp meter.
Seems like the motor was well maintained throughout it useful life but it hasn't been run for about 10 years.
I'll take a movie for excitement if she blows

luck sabre, let us know how it runs. frog

Good luck Cal, I hope she run's out just fine for you! Looking forward to the video, we need a little excitement around here. tee hee.

P.S. - I think if it were me I'd change the fuse out to the factory spec size. Just my two cents.......

If the price / reliability of the electronic ignition is an issue then that 67 model is easy to convert.----The 66 model ignition ( Points / condenser / coil )is an easy retro fit.

63 Sabre,

GOOD LUCK & BEST WISHES.

yours, satx

The video is posted, if you can put up with an old guy tinkering at the beginning.
You guys brought good luck! Took a few tries but the motor started and ran. Not bad for sitting idle for so many years, pardon the pun.
Three issues that surfaced that should not be a problem, I hope.
1. The starter motor seems to be hanging up for a second after the engine starts, you can hear it in the video. I suspect a few shots of oil on the gear spring area after a solvent cleaning should take care of that.
2. A new set of spark plugs would probably help.
3. There is a fuel delivery problem, I can’t get the bulb to tighten up for priming and the fuel filter might be leaking air. You can hear the motor start to sputter at the end of the video and see that the glass filter is empty. Fuel pump is working fine otherwise she would not have run like it did. Worse case is I’d have to pull the tank and check the feeder line inside.
I cheated with some good ol’ starting fluid at first.
The cooling works perfect, she never even got warm, of course there is snow on the ground and ice on the driveway, that’s why I was walking sorta gingerly.
Fuel gauge works, amp meter works, choke lever works, “on” light works.
If any of you fellas have some opinions toss 'em out if you think there is a miss somewhere or is this the way it should sound.
Time for some brewskies to celebrate.
Next startup will be at the launch ramp to put a final OK on the water pump and cooling system without a pressurized hose.

OH Yah,,,,,,The lawn tractor started too!!!!

Outstanding Cal, congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob

The kudos came too soon. Seems I have a more complex fuel problem. I put all new fuel lines on this past week, the clear kind that you can actually see the fuel flowing. I pumped the bulb up tight and watched as the gas went through the lines. It gets past the fuel pump and a small amount goes towards the carbs and then it stops. Seems like air is backing through the carbs. The engine will run for a short time with the little bit of fuel that was in the line and then shuts down of course. I took the fuel pump apart and it appears to be good, nothing cracked, no holes, springs etc are all good, no splits or tears in the rubber which is very flexible. I'm thinking the carbs, floats, needles are probably varnished up and something is sticking. Any way to clean them out without a complete disassembly? Hate to spray carb cleaner in there not knowing what it will eat up.
Help.
Cal

Take the carbs apart & clean them completely. Then you know they are good. You don't want to burn down one cyl running it lean.

I suggest you take the starter apart.---Clean and lube the reduction gear in there and the bushing in the block.

I suppose my luck ran out. I'll pull the carbs and clean them. Thought I could get away with not doing it. So goes the disease we have

Cal, I agree with the tear down. You could possibly spray a bunch of Seafoam in there but no guarantees it will break it all down, the gunk that is. The rebuild kit isn't that bad price wise if I remember right. I've been putting a half can of sea foam in each tank of gas and it really helps to get rid of carbon etc including freeing up the rings. The Fat Fifty was running 75/80 in the cylinders before I started using it, now they're 90 across the board. I switched over the 80hp as you know and plan on using it on that to free its rings up. It's 90 across the board but should be higher, saves breaking the whole thing down but that's just me.

Bob

Where can I get a rebuild kit for the carbs and for good measure a kit for the fuel pump.

I'd give Joe a call at Ferguson Poole Marine a call Cal, or shoot him an email to;
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

I've used marineengine.com a few times with good results.

Bob

I'm going to try this first and see what happens.
I cut this out of the Pensacola Fishing Forum site. Hope no one minds but it seems like a good article to share but is pretty long.

Here is the cut/paste.

I have been using Seafoam for many, many years via several methods including adding it to fuel and spraying the Deep Creep directly into the carbs or throttle bodies. I have found, however, that on outboards a process called De-Carboning has become my go-to method of routine maintenence as well as correcting many causes of rough idle, sluggish performance and dropping RPM's. I keep a one gallon gas can and a short fuel hose with only a fuel connector for my engine and a primer bulb handy just for de-carbing my outboard.....no connector on the piece of hose on the input side of the primer bulb as I just drop it into the one gallon can with the gas/seafoam mixture.

A fellow known as Dunk on quite a few boating forums around the internet has written up a good description of the proceedure that I will paste into my post to give anyone interest a good, detailed guide as to just how to go about it. Seafoam is VERY safe to use in outboards....both 2 and 4 strokes.

If anyone decides to use this method, it would be great if you will report back as to your experience and results.

Here is Capt Bob Dunkelberger's (Dunk) De-Carbon Process?


"Tip for the Week
Do-It-Yourself Engine Tip; A Simple and Cost Effective Way to De-Carbon an Outboard
By Capt. Bob Dunkelberger
This works for Carbed, EFI, Ficht, HPDI, Opti-max and even 4-strokes... and should be administered after every 50-60 hours of use.
First you need a separate small fuel tank. One of those 3-gallon red Tempos works well or an empty gallon milk jug in a pinch, but it might be a bit messier.
I use Seafoam over the OEM (original equipment manufacturer) stuff like OMC Engine Tuner or Mercury Power Tune. Note: in the last few years they changed the formula and you have to let them sit up 12 hours. Who's got time for that? Seafoam does the job in 15 minutes and can be purchased from NAPA, Car Quest or other auto stores.
You'll need 3/4 gallon of gasoline and one 16oz can of Seafoam for each engine. Don't forget to add 3oz of oil if you are pre-mixing in a carbed engine. Use a 3 ft piece of fuel hose off the small tank. Connect this tank to your engine by pulling off the main tank fuel hose from the intake side of your water separating fuel filter and plug the hose off the small tank onto that fitting. Or you can separate the fuel line on the tank side primer ball, so you can still use your primer. If your engine has a fuel plug then you will also need a fuel plug on the smaller tank's hose.
Start the engine, let it warm up and start pulling the mix into the engine. You may have to increase the idle to keep it running once she gets loaded with the Seafoam. Run the engine 15 minutes at the dock or just cruising around under 2500 rpm's. Then shut it down and let it sit for another 15 minutes.
Restart the engine; the smoke you see is the carbon burning off. Do the whole thing again and let her sit again for 15 more minutes. If she smokes after the second time do it again.
I've never seen one still smoke after three doses. (I bought a Bronco two years ago that had 95,000 miles on it. When I used Seafoam on it I had the neighbors hanging out of their front doors looking for where the fire was after I started it the first time there so much smoke)
The gallon mix should be just enough to do this 3 times. You don't need a wide-open throttle and you don't need to change the plugs. The plugs are cleaned at the same time as the combustion chambers. My suggestion is that every 50-60hrs is the optimal time to change plugs in most engines.
I cleaned an antique Evinrude once that had a 1/4" of solid carbon on the exhaust chamber walls by running a 1/2 gal of the aforementioned mix through it. Seafoam, a great product, has been around since the 1930's and it's what they used when they were burning straight 4 stroke 40SAE oils in outboards.
For you guys with the 4 stroke outboards? Those engines work 10 times as hard as any auto engine ever will and they too will carbon up. Too many are under the assumption that it's totally the 2 stroke oil that causes the carbon, Wrong... it's also the additives they put in the fuels today. The carbon inhibitors in 2-stroke oil are there for this reason also. Remember when gasoline used to smell like gasoline, today it smells more like bad cologne.
For those guys that like to work the carbon treatment by spraying it down the carbs, Seafoam also comes in spray can called Deep Creep. It's the same stuff under pressure and notes on the can, "Oxygen Sensor Safe". After that, if your engine manufacturer recommends a daily additive treatment then do so. The tank and hose are a one-time purchase and the Seafoam is only costs $5-6.00 per can.


I followed this on my 9.9 & 90 horse and smoke it did! I was using a garbage can for a water tank so I killed all mosquitos in the neighborhood! It will SMOKE! If you do this with the water hose muffs, white gunk will be aLL over your drive way! but no carbon left in engine and carbs very clean."

No argument on Sea Foam Cal, I've always been told it's one of the best "de-carbonizers" on the market! With all due respect, I don't think it's going to replace a good carburetor cleaning and refresh (w/new gaskets, needle and seat, etc.) I agree it's a good idea, but we're talking about two different issues here. Just my two cents, but I'd STILL pull the carbs down and clean them out, check for problems, etc....

Maybe it will solve the issue and you won't have to, but for a couple hours work and less than $50 in parts - it's peace of mind to know the carbs are "straight".

Agree. I mailed marinengine.com last night to see if they have a kit for the rebuild and for the fuel pump. Nothing was exactly listed on line. It's been many years since I've been on their site. Last time was when I rebuilt my Graymarine 225 fireball. Great bunch there.

I checked their site, they (marineengine.com) don't list a "kit" so maybe your correspondence will have better results. A lot of the older OMC parts are still available through the dealers, but get very pricey with the "vintage" label that is affixed.

I was wondering if Sierra might have a listing on the kit Cal? I normally stick with O.E. stuff, but have used their carb kits in the past with good results. Maybe the answer is as close as your local NAPA store? (We should be so lucky, right?)

Just take the pump apart and lay out the parts.---Look in the SIERRA part catalogue and compare contents of repair kits to what you have.-Should be simple enuff.

That's a plan. I went to my local OMC dealer this morning looking for a rebuild kit for the carb. Seems like the 4 in 1 carb setup was not around very long according to him. Gaskets are no longer available. Needles and seats are avail @ $45. a pop. I'm up in the air now. One thing at a time, I'll do the pump and go from there. Fishing season is coming in full bloom now and I'm chomping at the bit.

Cal,

The local dealer is right, those were oddball carbs. I don't know if OMC ever made kits or not. Back in the day, the parts books didn't list kits, only individual parts. The dealer handbooks & flips charts is where we looked. I think kit #382059 or any supercession is what you need.
I don't have my microfiche available right and the online support goes back to 1968. I may have some parts if you have OMC numbers.

Jim

Jim, exactly. We looked through his book this morning and as you said it was just a blow up with a parts listing. He took the book back to his back room repair area and talked with an old timer and he too confirmed what you said but he used words like "antique" and "anchor".
I think I have good news though that can put this whole discussion to rest if I'm lucky.
I pulled the hose off that feeds into the carbs and pumped the bulb until it tightened and then I'm seeing air bubbles in the line. At first I thought there was a leak in the fuel pump somewhere so I screwdrivered everything to make sure, all tight. Some serious thinking and perusing over a couple beers wondering where air is coming from and the only thing left was the feed line from the tank itself. I pulled the whatchamacallit dipper from inside the tank and put a vacuum pump on it while sealing the end with my finger. It was losing vacuum pretty fast. After putting oil/gas resistant gasket sealer around it, resealing all the threaded ends I rechecked the vacuum and it held at 30" solid. Maybe this was the problem all along.
Any opinions??

Could have been it. Put it back together and see what happens. If it's still acting up your no worse off than you were before.

Bob

O-Tay.

That carburetor was used on the 64 and 65 90 HP and the 66 through 68 100 HP models.----Lots of good used parts available for those too.

Cal - do not dismantle the carb unless you have no other choice. OMC did furnish a comprehensive kit for that carb, but it is worth 3X it's weight in gold, IF you can locate one. Last one I was quoted on from old dealer stock was over $250.00 Seaway Marine in Seattle WA probably has one in stock.

Check the connector O ring to be sure it isn't pulling air from the fitting at the end of the hose. Also the check valves in the bulb may be failing. It's worth looking at the primer bulb to be sure it's installed in the right direction - I've accidentally reversed them a couple times.

If the pump diaphragm has a pin hole in it, the crankcase pulses will put air into the line.

The last thing I want to do is rebuild another carb. Since I repaired the inlet tube inside the tank things seem to be holding. Over the past week the bulb has held tight, no air bubbles in the line. The weather has put the kibosh on any testing but I'm hoping things will be fine.
I received a letter from the previous owner of the boat, actually the original owners son. Bought the boat new in '68 and used it extensively but after his wife passed it was relegated to behind the barn and sat for many years. He was an AMS/Oil dealer and always used those products in/on the motor. That probably explains the good condition everything was in, all I had to replace was a starter solenoid, plug wires, water pump impeller and other mouse damage. Compression is 120 in all four. Lower unit oil was clear when I changed it and doesn't leak a drop at all

OK, good news bad news. I finally was able to take the boat to the launch ramp to check out the meteor. It started, ran for about a minute, smoked like the dickens and then quit. Started right up again and this went on for about a dozen restarts. The fuel is about a month old premium no ethanol 50:1, I added some seafoam and stabil a few weeks ago just to clean things up. The visible fuel filter was clean. I don't believe it is a fuel problem because the bulb stayed tight and with the visible fuel lines things looked normal. It did not overheat which is good. when it did get up to temp the auto choke worked and the plates opened. Now I'm wondering if it could be an electrical problem. There are new NGK plugs, surface type recommended, new plug wires etc. The rotor and contacts are clean, no pitting.
Would a bad CDI assembly act like that?? towards the end of the trial it seemed like it was only firing on two cylinders. I a little stumped right now.
Next question, if I were to change over to a coil/point ignition what parts would I need that I could probably get from a local OMC dealer. It is a '67 CDI. If I do the change over I would need lots of info from you fellers.

Cal

A much earlier post says that the 66 model 100 hp is an easy swap.---There are many other years and models that also use that battery / coil / points / condenser distributor as well !!----Should be lots and lots of used stuff around.

Prof. I popped the cap this morning just for a look see. Only one dead dehydrated mouse of unknown age. As long as I'm this far I might as well make the swap. The belt was just a little frayed on the edges so I'll change that also. Can someone give me an exact parts list that I need. Is there a link somewhere that instructs how to make the swap?
Thanks.