TOPIC: 1959 Evinrude Fat Fifty 50 hp, No spark

I am going to ask a few questions while searching this and other sites. I have never had the opportunity to work on a boat motor. My skills are in automotive with general All-World repair experience.

I inspected all ignition components cap, rotor and points all look like new. Reset gaps, cleaned wire contact points. Plugs are OK, plug wires are not. Boots are degrading and the contact inside the boots are corroded. Rewired ignition back to the box, turn key and it turns over great, bendix gear appears to be hanging on the flywheel. Rebuilt fuel pump, new primer bulb and will rebuild carb later.

The Victim: www.fiberglassics.com/glassic-forums/home/main-forum/free-boat

I ask, cause I wish to know.

1. What is the starting procedure? Throttle and gear locations at the motor.
2. What is this switch? It appears to be bypassed. What makes this switch work?

Thank you to all who offer assistance into my new hobby, Ron

Ron,
Not sure if the labels by your gear and throttle controls are still there but the gear shifter must be in neutral. It's also best not to shift the gears unless the engine is running, I know it's a catch 22 at this point but shift it into neutral (middle position). The throttle setting should be in "start" which is about 1/4 throttle for starting.

That switch is a safety switch to prevent the engine from starting while it's in gear if I remember right.

Bob

Thanks Bob, sweet motor on that clipper.

Here is a little more info. One set of points was set too narrow it has bee corrected and the plugs were at .025 also corrected.

The switch bugs me cause there isn't anything that comes in contact with it. It's like something is missing from the motor.

Once it got dark I check for spark at the points, nada.

Here are a couple of pictures.

Just took a look at my Fat Fifty. One end goes to ground and the other to the harness plug. It may be a high temp kill or a temp sending unit guessing by how it is heat sinked to the head.

VintageALboatFan wrote:

Just took a look at my Fat Fifty. One end goes to ground and the other to the harness plug. It may be a high temp kill or a temp sending unit guessing by how it is heat sinked to the head.

I think that it goes back through the harness to the solenoid and maybe back to the ignition switch. I will check in the morning.

I think this is the diagram for this motor.

After a nights rest, it has to be a neutral position micro switch. The position of the switch on my motor can't be right. The part circled in green in the picture is supposed to hit the switch and allow the motor to start.

Had a meter on it yesterday and it wasn't working consistently.

When I go back out I am going to see why it is at least an inch away from the trigger and find a screw to hook it back up.

Could the two wires on the switch that are together (hard to see) on the same post be working as a kill switch?

rdubyau,
I work mostly with vintage Mercurys dockbusters and Scotts that use distributors and ignition coils, but I'll take a shot at what that switch is on your Fat Fifty.
If the diagram fits your motor it would be the safety switch shown in the top right quadrant. It could be a safety switch to monitor gear position (neutral) or throttle position (under 1000 rpm), but the diagram doesn't specify. From what you have learned it appears to be for the gear position.
The diagram shows the switch grounded and when closed (safe position) it provides a ground to the starter solenoid through a white wire. This allows the starter to function. Your picture shows what looks like a white wire attached to it.
If you check your starter solenoid you are probably going to find someone has installed a jumper directly to ground and there may be the end of the white wire buried nearby.
It should have no involvement in whether or not the ignition has spark.
80% of the motors I see have one or more of the safety switches bypassed because it is extremely difficult to keep them adjusted correctly.
Hopefully someone can show you exactly how the switch interfaces with the shift linkage, or you can just ignore it if the starter cranks reliably.
You might want to check the black number 7 and 8 wires. They run from the magneto back to the ignition switch, and through it to ground. When the ignition switch is in the "on" position the black wires are ungrounded. If that circuit is intermittently grounded the magneto will not fire when grounded.
Good luck on getting it running.
Don

Flying Fish wrote:

You might want to check the black number 7 and 8 wires. They run from the magneto back to the ignition switch, and through it to ground. When the ignition switch is in the "on" position the black wires are ungrounded. If that circuit is intermittently grounded the magneto will not fire when grounded.
Good luck on getting it running.
Don

Thanks Don, I did check continuity on 7 and 8 with key off. They are good from switch to ground on motor and post on the side of the mag. Gonna try to test what happens when key is turned.

This switch is only there to prevent cranking when motor is in gear.

By now you have determined that the micro switch is the starter relay safety lockout. Engine must be in neutral and throttle near idle to have starter crank. There is a post on the side of the mag. This is the kill wire. The wire goes to the ignition switch, and the magneto posts on the switch work exactly opposite of a car ignition. When the key is turned "On" the connection to the magneto is broken, un-grounding the mag and allowing spark. When the key is turned "OFF" the post to the magneto is shorted to ground, killing the spark. Disconnect the wire from the side post of the mag that goes to the motor. It should have spark. My bet is that your mag is toast. There is a lot of rust inside it, and I see a screw on the bearing plate has been backed out. It is very likely that the coil is bad. If you can find a working mag for around 100 bucks - that will be the cheapest route. A new coil will set you back 80 bucks minimum.

Progress!!!! Had the magneto off today and went through all contacts, filed points, cleaned cap contacts. And I now have some spark. Spark tester lights, but when I ground a plug there isn't any spark on the plug.

Does anyone have the timing procedure handy?

Gonna freshen the plugs tomorrow. What is my best choice in plugs?

Dead now, timing belt broke. I'm hoping to find one.

Congrats on getting it to spark! Lots of times these old ign's will have bad coils, and they are very expensive nowadays!

Far as gettin' 'er all link'd & synch'd, here's a really good YouTube video that, although it's for a 75hp V4, will be applicable to your Fat Fifty as well:



Use Champion J6C spark plugs (Champion stock # 823).

BTW, here's an excellent source of parts diagrams, just look it up by your model number:

www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1959&hp=50

HTH............ed

Great video, Ed. Too bad my timing belt broke. Dead until a replacement can be found.

I'm still gonna check out my linkage shown in that video,

rdubyau wrote:

Great video, Ed. Too bad my timing belt broke. Dead until a replacement can be found.

I'm still gonna check out my linkage shown in that video,

Well, the 0305446 belt is still available, but it ain't cheap!

www.boats.net/parts/detail/omc/O-0305446.html

www.marineengine.com/newparts/part_details.php?pnum=OMC0305446

Here's a New Old Stock belt on ebay for a bit less:



HTH.........ed

Nothing is cheap!!!

The belt was on list #3 of things to address just before hitting the water. It was dry.

My first inspection of the ignition components fooled me. I put on my jewelers glasses and the points needed help. I really got after them with a file. The cap and rotor not so much.

Looking forward to later next week and some angry neighbors. You know, smoke and noise and all.

Probably gonna paint the cowling for something to do in the meantime.

I just watched the video again and that neutral safety switch is in there and know I see how the switch is made. The one on my motor has an arm missing. That is why I was at a loss as to how it functioned.

That belt should be easy to find used. Have a bunch here but not interested in international shipping.---To get strong spark the points need to be timed to the rotation of the magneto.

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A good manual would have the details of that.

Be careful using Boats.net. They got hacked and my credit card got compromised, had to get a new one.

Bob

Waterwings wrote:

Be careful using Boats.net. They got hacked and my credit card got compromised, had to get a new one.

Bob

How long ago did that happen? I've ordered a lot of parts from them in the past, didn't seem like I ever had any problems. Or maybe just lucky!!!! :0

Has anyone ever run new wire on the motor side of the harness?

If so, did you just cut the wires and add new or is is possible to attach new wire on the connectors?

What did you do with the extra unused wires?

I'm probably going to have to do it before hitting the lake.

Ed,
It was a couple of weeks ago. Started with a $10 charge to see if it would work then a $300 train ticket in Norway. Credit card company caught it. Got a letter from the owners a week after it happened statin the site got hacked.

Bob

Ron,
Finally found the picks of the Golden Jubilee Cover. this is after I restored it. It need some new paint here and there. These are the original colors for this year Evinrude.

Nice!!! I like it. I'm not a fan of the square look of this motor but it's the only one I have. The previous owner painted everything white with terrible masking and heavy spray in areas. They didn't take any emblems off, cracked one large one trying to remove it and painted over all the gold chrome pieces. I'm trying to safely restore those. The only one missing is the round "E" badge.

Keep an eye out on E-bay it may turn up.

Bob

I got so excited I posted this in my other thread about the boat.

The Big Heavy is now running! It even idles.

Thanks to all. You guys ROCK!!!!

Freshened up the tune and set the timing and BAM! It is running off the fuel tank.

If you compare the weight of the V-4 of the day to the weight of a modern 50 HP motor you will conclude that the motor was not that heavy.

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Big yes, but not that heavy and certainly easier to work on.

Here is a strange one for you. I had the lower end off yesterday and was going to change the impeller. With the old one off(only 1 small tear seen) I went to put a 18-3005 (377992)on and the bore on the new impeller is too big. That is the part number listed for this motor on MarineEngine.com. I know that there is a chance that I received the wrong part but is it possible that the drive shaft/lower end has been changed. Drivehaft diameter .75 in. and new impeller bore diameter .88 in. Plenty of water flow with the old one while I had it running.

The sterndrive impeller looks the same but is not the same.

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Likely a packaging mix-up which is not uncommon these days.

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Many folks working today just follow instruction given to them by a boss or a computer.

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They really have no in depth knowledge of what they are doing.

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Go to a dealer and order the factory part as they are a step better in quality anyways.

As I travel around the internet looking at impellers, I am seeing 2 different size bores in the pictures listed for the same part number. You can't tell from a picture what the size is but I am seeing impellers with twice the thickness of the brass in the center. Just like the two that I have.

It took me 4 wrong ones off of the internet before I went to the dealer and payed acouple of bucks more for the right one. Better to just get a good one so you don't see all your hard work get burnt up down the road, or in this case, across the lake. Skip.

Professor and Skip are giving you great advise on this RW, get the O.E. brand impeller. Aftermarket parts may be okay for some things, but the water pump impeller is one of the items I believe you should get the best quality piece you can buy. (It's not that much more expensive!) Just my two cents......

A quote from an office in a " world class " machine shop where I worked for a while

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" the bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten "

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From what I have heard and seen this is true when some after market parts are presented as being as good as the original.

I get it, I get it, but in a previous life I was in manager of a company that made aftermarket automotive driveline parts. The parts we built and sold OE were the same we sold aftermarket. Don't be fooled thinking you are getting something better by buying OE 100% of the time. Aftermarket at times is the exact same part. In this case I have not.

There will always be folks who can build / make the same thing for less money !!