TOPIC: 89 Johnson 150

Hello Gents, Been around this site for a bit, however Im a Merc owner also, so most of my posts have been over there. I just bought a new (used) boat. 89 Larson Citation 18 foot with a Johnson 150 VRO outboard of (I think)the same Vintage. I havent run the serial #'s yet.(nor the engine!)I live at 8000 ft and didnt want to have to re winterize. The seller was a cop and seemed honest, but you never know. It did come with the johnson owners manual. I have a couple of questions I hope you guys can help with. First the seller told me that he bought the boat used from a marine shop,they recommended that he NOT use the auto oil mixer. So he said that is disconnected, and he just premixes. Which is fine with me. He claimed the reasoning the shop used to him, was that if the pump to mix DID stop working, AND, the warning horn failed to go off the engine would overheat.I always like to operate things the way they were intended to be (for the most part), so I guess I just hoping for some opinions on that. I think testing that warning horn seems like it would be a decent idea. Or should I just premixed, as he did , and I do with my Merc. Second is ; I would like to install a 2 battery setup. Always wanted to do this in my other boat. Just for peace of mind sort of thing. This "new" boat has a stereo system, so knowing I have a reserve battery to start the engine is nice. I was looking into those "switch kits" for adding second battery. They are sold by the size, relative to how many amps the boats alternator puts out. My Johnny manual says 3 amps from what I can figure. Does that sound right ? Anyone with any experience running a 2 battery set up please help. Thanks

Regarding the VRO (variable ratio oiling), the system came out in the mid 80's and there were a few growing pains. Failure of the system would cause seizure from no oil, overheating was secondary.

There have been 3 or 4 generations of pumps over the years. The changes were for reliability, alarm & ethanol compatibility. The current pumps are now called OMS (oil management system) and essentially pump 50:1. They are very reliable.

Yes they are expensive but worth the cost (in my opinion) if the boat is in good condition. If it's a beater, that is another story.

Regarding the year of engine, you need to find the model #. Serial numbers work on later engines if a dealer has access to BRP's BossWeb system. Pre BRP engines (2000 timeline) don't always show up.

I-N-T-R-O-D-U-C-E-S
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0

To determine model years from the 80's to about 2012, use the above.
Example: Model # from engine placard = E60DPLEE engine is an Evinrude 60 and EE is 1999

Regarding your charging system/battery switch, You most likely have a 12 amp charging system. If you are isolating batteries for charging purposes, then you need a battery isolator. They may be rated in charging system output, I don't know. If you want to be able to isolate the batteries from the engine & each other so for example you can anchor & listen to music yet be sure a battery will start the engine, you need a battery switch. In this case, you need one with OFF/1/BOTH/2. They will be rated for 200 or more amps.

jimandros wrote:

Regarding the VRO (variable ratio oiling), the system came out in the mid 80's and there were a few growing pains. Failure of the system would cause seizure from no oil, overheating was secondary.

There have been 3 or 4 generations of pumps over the years. The changes were for reliability, alarm & ethanol compatibility. The current pumps are now called OMS (oil management system) and essentially pump 50:1. They are very reliable.

Yes they are expensive but worth the cost (in my opinion) if the boat is in good condition. If it's a beater, that is another story.

Regarding the year of engine, you need to find the model #. Serial numbers work on later engines if a dealer has access to BRP's BossWeb system. Pre BRP engines (2000 timeline) don't always show up.

I-N-T-R-O-D-U-C-E-S
1-2-3-4-5- 6-7- 8-9- 0

To determine model years from the 80's to about 2012, use the above.
Example: Model # from engine placard = E60DPLEE engine is an Evinrude 60 and EE is 1999

Regarding your charging system/battery switch, You most likely have a 12 amp charging system. If you are isolating batteries for charging purposes, then you need a battery isolator. They may be rated in charging system output, I don't know. If you want to be able to isolate the batteries from the engine & each other so for example you can anchor & listen to music yet be sure a battery will start the engine, you need a battery switch. In this case, you need one with OFF/1/BOTH/2. They will be rated for 200 or more amps.

Thanks for all the help. Great information. I was looking into those battery switchs, You are saying I need a switch that can handle 200 amps? I will definitely continue to pre mix the fuel/oil as the PO did. I just spent my entire winters worth of savings (2200) on the boat, so hopefully its not a "beater" but...it certainly needs a few things. Im really hoping to learn how to properly repair fiberglass from some folks on here. The hull has a few chipped spots and dings that I would like to fix correctly. In the past I have used that jb marine weld epoxy to "quick patch" these, but that WAS on a "beater" type boat. (Cool old boat in my profile pic, got it free). I have watched a few videos, but am not quite satisfied with what Ive watched. Need to learn more before I give it a try.

Maybe something like this:

www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Add-A-Battery-Kit/dp/B00BFVHDNA%3Fpsc%3D1%26SubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-d-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB00BFVHDNA

The battery switch itself is rated at 300 amps, so it'll handle the outboard's starting current.

The charging combining relay is rated for 65 amp max alternator output and your alternator probably puts out no greater than 35 amps if it's high-output, otherwise 10 amps is about the norm for older outboards.

With the switch "Off", the starting battery and "house" battery are isolated from each other. This is how you'd normally operate. With the switch "On", the 2 batteries are tied together electrically.

The charging relay automatically combines both batteries when the alternator is charging, but isolates the 2 batteries when you are cranking the engine and when the alternator is not charging.

The really cool thing it does is charge the starting battery first, then when that battery is fully charged, the relay switches to charge the "house" battery as well.

Another useful feature, if you have the main switch "Off" and you connect a battery charger to the starting battery, both batteries are charged. So you don't have to mess around with swapping the charger to the other battery.

Check out the Q&A section and all the comments, lots of good info there about how it all works.

HTH..........ed

Thanks master ed ! So would the exact one you linked to be the one for my rig ? The $88 one ?

discoboater wrote:

Thanks master ed ! So would the exact one you linked to be the one for my rig ? The $88 one ?

I'm thinking so, there was a lot of talk in the Q&A about which one is appropriate for whatever motor, and I recall them answering about the higher-amp-rated switch (120 amp, IIRC), that it was primarily meant for I/O's and higher-amp-rated outboards.

Your motor won't charge anywhere near 65 amps, so that max rating is Plenty Good for your application. Seems like a really nice setup.

Cheers........ed

Sweet ! Thanks again. For the start battery could I employ a "marine starting" battery? I dont think that they are deep cycle, like the "house" battery is. I have noticed them for sale at walmart for a bit less than the deep cycle cost. Like $60 vs. $80.

discoboater wrote:

Sweet ! Thanks again. For the start battery could I employ a "marine starting" battery? I dont think that they are deep cycle, like the "house" battery is. I have noticed them for sale at walmart for a bit less than the deep cycle cost. Like $60 vs. $80.

Probably a good idea, deep cycle batteries aren't so good for regular starting duties. Tends to shorten their lives.

They are better suited to long discharges at lower current, perfect for depth-finders, radios, other electronics.

The house battery will of course do in a pinch to start the motor if the primary, "starting" battery has issues.

Thanks again Ed !!

My experience has been that deep cycle batteries work great for starting batteries on small engines. I've been using them exclusively in my cars even, for over 25 years now. Back then, they were the same price as an automotive battery, and you only have to pick one up to tell it has more lead in it. The plates are thicker, so current moves slower, in and out, than thinner plates. But they last longer. They don't have the cold cranking amps to turn over big V8's, but there's plenty enough for pretty much all outboards... and Subarus! I get 7-8 years out of them in my cars.

Although you probably already bought it, I can tell you that I used deep cycle batteries exclusively on my old 24' 4 winns for years with no starting issues. Group 27 I believe. It was a gm-350 (or 5.7 if you prefer ) and they worked great. Since I moored it, I eventually got a small solar panel to keep them topped off (1.5 watts I think). I boated here (LI NY) from May through October. I got stuck several times on the water for various reasons, but never for a dead battery!

Havent bought it yet. Probably this weekend. But I still may stick with a "starting battery" and a deep cycle. The starter is cheaper than the DC and since Im buying both new, it will save me 25 bucks. Not huge but it all adds up. How long should I estimate to install the switch ? Im no pro, but I am ok with auto and marine electrical. Rewired my old boat, and when I was a kid I worked as a auto accessory installer, did alarms, stereos, remote starts..etc. Im hoping I can knock it out in 2 hours ish. To do a nice clean install.

Assuming you have everything on hand and know where they are going, should be about right. I personally figure the time it will take me to do a project, then multiply my by 1.5 to 2 - just what happens with me :-. It was mentioned below but worth mentioning again if going with 2 bats, a 1/both/2/off switch works great as long as you remember to use it. Good Luck!

What else will I need to install this kit (blue sea) thats NOT included ? I was hoping any additional items needed could be obtained locally at the auto parts store. The wiring is the only thing I figured Id need to get.

You'll need red & black battery cables (probably 4AWG) and some 16AWG wiring for the relay circuit. Plus mounting screws and a way to tie ground wiring/cables together. The mfr sells a grounding bus bar but it's a bit spendy, you could just nut-and-bolt them altogether & wrap with electrical tape.

Here's the mfr's website page for the kit:

www.bluesea.com/products/7649/Mini_Add-A-Battery_Kit_-_65A

You'll find the installation instructions in a .pdf link so you can see how the electrical connections go.

I did see a comment on the Amazon site about the very slight amount of current the relay draws wile monitoring the system. This happens even in the "off" position. The mfr says that there could be discharge issues after 4 months of storage. Of course, if you're keeping a battery maintainer on the starting battery, that issue is moot.

They did provide a way to bypass the problem, by installing a toggle switch in the relay line. In the "off" position it disables the monitoring feature and there's no drain except for battery self-discharge. The installation diagram shows where to install the switch.

IMHO I'd never leave the batteries off a charger for long-term storage anyway. But if you did use the switch, when you went to charge the batteries (or run the boat) the switch would have to be "On".

I'd expect the most time-consuming part of this job would be mounting the switch and relay, after figuring out a good location for them.

If all this is too daunting, they offer a simple "Off", "1", "2", or "1+2" switch for about $38:

www.amazon.com/dp/product/B000MMFJH0

Simpler installation but of course you have to manually monitor and control the batteries.

So, take a look at their website. At Amazon, scroll down to "Sponsored Products Related to This Item" and it's an easy way to run thru the various items and pick up other things like battery cables that you'll need for the installation. Lots of related things show up on the switch/relay page.

HTH.........ed

Thanks again, I will run the course,and go with the whole kit, that includes the relay. Besides the negative hookup and mounting hardware, the battery cables and wiring should be easy to come by.. But I might buy the mfgs negative mounting bus,.. the bolt together idea isnt what im thinking here. Walmart has wires and cables. I usually remove my boat batteries over the winter. Keep em in warm storage closet.

So .... I got her out for the first time last week. I found out the motor is a 88 NOT a 89, the boat is a 89. It went pretty well, but she didnt run as smooth as my 65 Merc. It had a bit of a rough time starting, which it also did at home on the muffs. I thought it might be from a small amount of bad gas contaminating the fresh gas I put in. I will try some seafoam next time. I used the highest octane pump gas (91) for the boat, really helps with the Merc, thought it couldnt hurt on this Jonny. I am now wondering if it could be a jetting thing. I bought the boat in CO springs (6000 + ft) which is quite a bit lower altitude than where I live (8000+ft). However the Lake I brought her out on last week was around 5000 ft. Maybe adjusting the Idle screws would help ? The motor did the same thing weather it was warm or cold...needed the warm up lever up, and left up for a good bit after starting, I tried keeping it around 2000 rpm during "warm up" It also stalled out while trying to pull me on a wake board (wife was driving and also just learning the boat), it did this a couple of times. Not super pleasant in 53 degree water ! Any Ideas on where I should start. PO told me "She runs great, zero issues". Once up and running she seemed fine to me, but really didnt do so well at "troll" speed, (1st gear). Was good for a bit , then wanted to stall out if I didnt increase the throttle for a second or 2.

Any chance some one has a link to the proper Johnson service manual for this motor ?

Hoping someone jumps on here with some advice soon. Maybe I should start a new thread (says a voice in a empty room) ??
I am wondering if this could be solved by adjusting the idle screws. Sure helped my Merc run a bit smoother.

Hope Y all are still checking on me...over 800 views and only a few replys Needing help with a couple more things. First I am trying to get the add a battery kit installed. The situation is I got all the wires hooked up and connected to the bus bar, But as I went to flip the switch from off to on I heard a pop so I immediately turned the switch back to off....a couple of notes,I did not install fuses in the lines, it recommends 3 in the instructions, also I did not have a ground wire coming off the bus bar to a ground someplace else. After some research it seems the best ground on most boats is the negative battery post. Since both negatives already connect to the bus bar, running another cable would be redundant. Do I use one of the bolt ends that hold the motor to the transom ? theres at least 2 extra inches on each post. Do I need to ground the bus bar which connects all of the negatives ?

The other issue : she seems to be running to rich. Tough to start, even when warm, stalls when given the gas to quickly, and runs a bit rough. I pulled the cover off the motor today to look for the carb adjustment screws, found em on the port side of the motor, noticed 2 of the screws set in a similar position while the middle one was set differently ? My merc has 3 carbs and they had to be synced in order for her to run well. I would presume it is the same with these Johnsons, no ? Can anyone outline the procedure for these motors for me ? I also plan on replacing the fuel filter, cant hurt !

Thanks fellas

discoboater wrote: Any chance some one has a link to the proper Johnson service manual for this motor ?

Sorry not to reply sooner.
Here is a link that would be helpful. It has full manuals that you can print out or just read. Hard to navigate but the info should be there.
boatinfo.no/lib/library.html#

Thanks Sabre , Good link. Now to get some of these other questions answered !

In case anyone is still checking this thread out; I noticed something last time out that may help diagnose the engine problems Im having. She really did not want to start up at the dock, took quite a few tries to get going, then she stalls out at a very specific rpm range, just past first gear, as soon as you get a bit past the first gear point on the throttle she starts to bog.....Then I noticed if I use the prime function at the key (pushing it in) she trogs past this awkward rpm point ok. My buddy thinks she runs rich, but to me this would indicate a too lean condition, I have ordered a new fuel filter, could a bad fuel pump diaphragm also be a possibility ? Any other ideas ? Please !?

Yep, sounds like a lean condition. Your motor's carbs have three sets of jets - low speed, mid-range, and high speed. All three sets have to be spotless in order to achieve smooth transition through the throttle range. If your carbs have BLACK gaskets between the carb bowls and carb bodies, then they likely have never been rebuilt, or at least not within the last 20-25 years. New kits use a different material which is greenish/brownish in color and is ethanol resistant. In any case, it's possible you've got plugged jets. Pull them off, take 'em apart and clean them up. Put new kits in them while you've got them apart. Good chance to replace all hoses with newer ethanol resistant hoses, too.

Thank you chine walker ! Great advice. Its been quite a while since Ive torn a carburetor apart, did some motorcycle carbs when I was a teen , over 25 years ago. Should I be concerned with the difficulty level of this ? or is it pretty straight forward. I never rush through these things, but do wonder how much time I should anticipate spending on each carb. Thanks again, very appreciated. ** Question : Do they offer "High Altitude" carb kits ? I live @ 8000 ft, and operate my boat at exclusively at altitudes ranging from 5000 ft to 10,000 ft.

Those Johnrude carbs are pretty simple. Trickiest part is setting the float level, but even that's not bad.

I believe you can order carb jets for high altitude operation. Not sure which ones, as I've never had to deal with them myself (you're WAY up there!!). Best to check with a dealer in the area you're boating to see what works there. Full carb kits and new jets can all be done at same time.

Thanks again chinewalker. I had her out the last couple of days. Put the new fuel filter in before hand. Didnt seem to help much. Same issues, tough to start (sometimes very tough), doesnt like to idle for too long, and it usually stalls around 1100 rpm. Its fine right up til about 1100, but between 11 and 13 hundred it is really picky. I usually need to put it back into neutral or 1st to keep her running. The "key trick" works only if you get the timing perfect (otherwise she stalls out). A guy out at the lake yesterday told me that johnsons run way better on johnson brand oil. He said they run pretty poor on walmart oil, which is what I run. Being I live in a remote resort area of the mountains, a marine store is tough to find. The nearest would be a hour drive, its a small marina shop, so its really expensive and limited also. I am reluctant to believe this would be the answer to my problems. Any opinions here ? I did take a look at the gaskets between the carbs and the block, they appear to be black , so its likely they are the originals. Will run the compression test asap and report the results. Ive been told that the compression tester I am using is not accurate due to it using a hose to connect to the gauge. I am hoping to see fairly close results from each cylinder, so the exact compression is maybe a bit less important than the variation between cylinders. Is there a way to test the fuel pump ? Note : I also noticed that the primer bulb does not stay hard, weather it starts or not. During the usually difficult starts it needs to be re primed by hand. It usually takes several tries to start, with the warm up lever in different positions and lots of priming from the key also. Thanks for any advice. Im in need of lots of it right now !

Your oil choice is not the cause of your issue. Better oils may (or may not) lead to longer life for your motor, but they really don't have much impact on how your motor runs day to day.

Compression test will tell you a bit about your motor's overall health, but I doubt it's your immediate issue.

Primer bulb will not stay hard while motor is running or if motor has just been running. It only hardens up when there's no release of fuel pressure at the end of the circuit, .ie the float valves are pinned shut. While motor is running, there is low pressure on the motor end which is what draws the fuel through the system. If you were to pinch off the hose south of the bulb, it would go flat while you're running.

Likely not fuel pump, either, as it would be most apparent at high speeds first.

I maintain your issue is with the mid-range jets in the carbs. Get them off, clean them thoroughly, and rebuild them with fresh kits. Aftermarket kits from Sierra are fine and can be found all over the web. Can also get them at NAPA or West Marine if you have one nearby.

For cold start, put the warmup lever to the stop. Turn the key to start while holding it inwards. The primer is NOT a pump, it's a valve. It only does something while the system is pressurized, .ie while the motor is turning over. Hold the key in until the motor fires. You may have to tease the primer a bit until it warms up. Pressing and releasing before it fires does nothing. Press and hold...

Thanks again for your wisdom sir, very appreciated. I will keep that key in while cold starting from now on. Is there any chance the issue could be the reeds ?

Not likely. Most obvious symptom of bad reeds would be significant blowback out the carb throats. All reeded 2-strokes will tie you a little bit of blowback, but bad reeds will give you copious amounts...

I have another question; I was reading the Johnson manual the other day, checking out factory prop specs and such.... I came across the recommended fuel mixture, 50:1 as usual, however it states that amount as 16 oz per 6 gallons. I have to admit ,I've always mixed 16 oz per 5 gallons. Any chance this could be part of the issue ? Doesn't seem to likely to me, but just thought Id ask.

I do believe these carbs may have been rebuilt at some point. The gaskets on either side of the front and backs of all 3 carbs have black gaskets, however, In between the top and bottom half's of the carbs the gaskets are grey green. I think this is what chine is referring to.While closely examining yesterday I noticed that this gasket is dry on the top 2 carbs, but the bottom carb has some oil on and apparently leaking from it ?
It doesn't look look like I need to remove the linkage to remove the carbs, nor does it appear separating them before removal is necessary . Looks like I can just remove the air cover and cables from below, remove the fuel lines at the 3 way T and the 4 bolts that hold each one on and thats it, they should come right off right ?

I am a bit bothered by the fact that the idle adjustment on these is a huge pain. There is no access to the idle screws on the sides of these carbs, it appears the idle screw is on the front of the carb, which requires removal of the air cover. Thats a bunch of crap to have to take off just to tweak the idle.

I have the feeling chinewalker is right on with his diagnosis of my carbs needing another rebuild. Looks like the kits cost about 25 each, so looking at 75 , but not sure if these kits include jets or if I will need to spend more $ on them .
I also pulled my bow eye loop out while trailering last time out, so I have a few things to sort out.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the help here

There is no idle adjustment on those carbs. They are fixed jet. The idle jets may be accessible from the front of the carbs with the air box off. The high speed jets are located in the bottom of the carb bowl, one one each side, behind the screws on either side of the bowl

As for the carb kits - before you invest in kits, just pull the carbs down and clean them thoroughly. If the gaskets are the new (non black) style and such look good, they're likely fine as is. Jets generally don't need replacement unless they're corroded beyond use.

I did as you mentioned chine, reluctantly pulled them carbs off before work yesterday. Planning on pulling em apart for a clean up today. Really hoping I dont mess anything up. All of the gaskets look good so far. We will see about the ones between the float bowls. I bought some gumout carb/choke parts cleaner and some small wire brushes....hope thats all I need. I have read the section on the carbs in the manual, seems like I will mostly be removing and cleaning the jets before reinstalling. Just hope I wont need any special tools or parts. Would like to get them put back on today or tomorrow. I have managed (so far) to keep track of which carb goes where.

No improvement yet. Im dying over here ! The problem isnt dirty carbs or jets, and also probably not the pump, since it has no problems at high speed, only starting and lower speeds....What does this leave ? Is it possible that there is a restriction somewhere else ? or could it just be a crappy pump that works better at high rpm than low ? Really dont want to take it to a shop...Id lose 3 weeks of the already very short season in colorado, plus probably spend between 500 and a grand. What to do ?

Crazy option, but I had a super nice friend who loaned me his older boat twice so I could still pull kids skiing when my powerhead blew 15 years ago until I could get it repaired the next season. Since then I did the same for 2 different families on vacation when I saw the disappointing look in the kids eyes that their annual vacation was about to be ruined. Just desperate thoughts until you find a solution.

Maybe I missed it on one of your posts but you said you were going to take a compression test. What were the results?
Poor compression is one of the causes for hard starting.
I had a 88 Johnson that started ok and idled but wouldn't run for s9987 at low speed, like a bullet on top end. I changed jets and didn't do any good. Finally stopped throwing money at it and accepted the fact that it is what it is. Did sell the boat two years ago and let the buyer know about the slow speed situation. Said he knew what the fix was (????) and never heard back from him.

Thanks Sabre and Dr Go. I Have NOT run the compression check yet. Besides pulling all the plugs and hooking up the muffs, is there anything else I need to do to run a accurate test ? Do you guys do anything special with your plug wires ? Last time I ran a compression check, I think I just let em hang ? ....

I am a bit excited to try another possible problem isolator test. After thinking on this and reading several guys suggestions, I remembered that my old (boat in my profile pic) used to barely run when I first got it, I struggled with different fixes, Then tried running her on a portable tank, rather than from the installed metal fuel cell. Never had a problem with her running after that. I pulled out the old cell and just put 2 smaller plastic portable cells in its place.

Im going to try this on this newer boat next time out. IF it does alright, I know that the problem is somewhere with either the tank or the vent. If the problem persists, it might either be the fuel pump, the hand primer bulb, poor compression, or maybe off ignition timing. Im hopefull the tank swap will rectify the problem.

LOL. What kind of boat was the Johnson on Sabre ? I hope not a 89 Larson...

I think I had also heard of people who used a portable tank from a small fishing motor ( not sure brand or connections and may have even been aftermarket) but wound up also having some fuel flow restrictions due to hose diameter or connector limits. I do not know this for fact, but hopefully you will have the correct hose and connectors. Just want you to get some fuel to the big motor and get back to the fun. Good luck. Wish I were a true mechanic rather than sending you on this experimental chase.