TOPIC: 1959 Evinrude Fat Fifty Help

Hello all. I'm restoring my 1960 Wagemaker Clipper and it has a '59 Evinrude Fat Fifty on it. It's been in a garage since 1980 and I'm sure it hasn 't been run since then. I have a couple of questions:
1. Do I automatically need to replace the impellar?
2. Do I need to rebuild the carbs and fuel pump. The fuel bowl looks kind of orange, varnishy.
3. What is a good prop to use to get the best performance? I have two aluminum ones but they both have a couple of chuncks out of them. One is worse than the other.

The motor does turn over. I can use the pull start to turn it but is very hard to pull. I'm assuming the compression is good then.

Any suggestions on bringing this to life would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bob

Pull the plugs and squart some oil in each cyl then jump the starter and turn it over a little so the rings and cyl get lubed up good then take a compression test on each cyl. They should all be a 100lbs or better. Now it will run at 90lbs and not bad. The impreller has taken a set by now after all these years sitting so its a given it will have to be changed. Now the carbs everybody has their own way of doing them. After the compression test if you have spark. I squart some fuel in the carbs and turn it over so you get some lub into the crank case to lub to the crank and rods. Now after you got all that done hook up the fuel line and see if it will fire. One other thing you should replace all the fuel lines on the motor. The old lines do not stand up to the fuel with alcahol that is in the gas now. Now that should keep you busy for a day anyway
If it will start let us know and how it ran if not tell us what it did do and not do.
Mike aka pathfinderz1

I have a rebuilt fat 50 I need to light up. Kind o can't wait to do it either. Short shaft not sure which boat to place it on. Maybe my 65 G3.

Mike aka pathfinderz1,
Thanks great info. I'll have to get a good manual to change the impellar. I don't think the original manual that came with the motor is going to have that in it. Found it with a bunch of other paperwork my dad had in a file cabinet.

Any suggestions on the prop?

changing the water pump impeller is pretty straight forward. For your prop be sure the hub is good and that you have spare shear pins and cotter pins.

OK, I squirted some marvel mystery oil in the cylinders then tilted the engine up on the stand over night. I did a compression check and it's not too good.
#1 90, #2 85, #3 90, #4 80. I didn't put a lot of oil in. Tried to squirt some all around the cylinder with an oil can and let it sit.

Something weird happened when I tilted the engine back down though. It started dripping the mystery oil back down the front of the motor from under the front part of the exhaust housing. The outside of the housing where the impeller is.

From reading the other Fat Fifty thread, I guess I should try and run some fuel and get it running a little bit and see what the pressure is then?

Any thoughts? I still have to buy an impeller, not sure of the part number and where yet.

Thanks,
Bob

Don't worry about the oil that came out some of the pistons are siting down to were the ports are open and it just ran through. Yes if you can get her to fire and run some those rings just might losen up and the compression will come up.
Keep it up and you just might have a keeper
Mike aka pathfinderz1

OMC dealers sell a product called Break Free that frees stuck rings and dissolves carbon deposits. A bit pricey, but it works. Might want to pick up a can when you get an impeller.

My apologies. It's called Carbon Guard, p/n 775629, about $20 a can. Your impeller is p/n 0377992 (OMC) or 18-3005 (Sierra). The omc impeller is more expensive, but some do not like Sierra. Your choice. The Carbon Guard is money well spent. Not everyone will spend the extra money for quality 2-stroke oil, cheap stuff sticks rings, smokes like *ell, and deposits carbon in rings, around exhaust ports, etc. Not something to skimp on.

Your compression test showes an average ol fat fifty.

I like to use sea foam, its for sale every where and only around 8bucks a pint. I use it in every motor I own.In the gas and even in the oil in my jeep. It has 203,000. miles and still going strong,

I would def. change all fuel hoses and rebuild the pump,as its just cheep ins to not break down,waterpump to.

when your done you will have a fat.....slow ....fuel eating....Monster......but very cool!

Oh and ebay has 2 spd props in the brass propellor section.

Good luck.

Mike/Kerry/Ponyboy
Great info gentlemen, thanks. I'll have to see if anyone local has the part. I plan on using the Sea foam. I put a little to some gas and put it in the three original Hi-lift cruise-a-day tanks I have I can practically see myself in the bottoms now. Great stuff.

I'll check out the props. The originals I have are 12 1/8x14, but they have some chunks out. One worse than the other. They are aluminum props. I'd like to find something to give the boat as much speed as it can get away with. If it's gonna suck gas I may as well have fun doing it. Owners manual says range from 4000-5000 range.

I don't know much about props, any suggestions? I'm assuming more pitch is faster?

Bob

Props are a funny thing more picth doesn't nessasaly mean more speed to much picth and you lug the motor down. The thing to do is find someone that has a bunch of props and try differnt ones. If you can't find anybody with props then It can cost you a bunch of money buying props till you find the right one. You want a prop the will let the motor run in its maxium rpm range. Not enough prop and you will over rev it and blow it up.
Maybe someone can tell you what prop would be best. I still don't know enough about them.
Mike aka pathfinderz1

Mike,
Thanks. Ill have to keep an eye out. I'll probably start another thread related specifically to the prop and see what happens. The one prop is in pretty good shape and should do for now.

Well the fuel pump rebuild kit and new impeller came in. I drained the lube out of the crank case to change it and got a surprise.

Well, first I did the "DUH" with the Phillips screw and took it out! DOH. Once I got the lower end off I was able to lay it on it's side and get the long pin/screw back in. Looks like it had some slight wear or scoring but think it should be ok. That pin only connects to the shift lever right?

When I opened the drain screw I got a surprise, clear water, about a 1/4 cup or so. The motor hasn't seen any water since 1980 so.... the oil came out very slow and sludgy but still fairly black. Maybe very dark grey. Should I be worried yet?

Also the lower unit, the exhaust housing spacer (long shaft) were just loaded with CARBON about 1/8" thick. Never seen so much. Plan on squirting it down with degreaser and maybe some kerosene and a brush to clean it up. It's all over the water pump housing as well. Is it OK to use Kerosene to clean the outer housing of the water pump or will it hurt the gaskets? Not taken apart yet.

Any ideas what the exhaust housing gasket part numbers are? I think I'll need to replace those. Or make some if I can't find any.

Is there anything else I should look out for when I pull the water pump apart and change the impleller?

Bob

Dont worry about the water in the LU just yet.. You have it apart enough to go ahead and disassemble it for a clean/reseal. I have the '57 35hp manual- and I think they share the same LU... I can scan the pages and send them to you.

I clean all my parts (the non-visible non-painted parts).. with cheapo oven cleaner from the dollar store. It's not real aggressive like the name brands. Just don't get it on the painted parts you can see (unless you plan on repainting). You can use a stiff brush to help it work, and it might take (2) cleanings- but it removes typical 2-stroke carbon like a charm. Works great on spark-plugs that you have fouled at the lake and forgot to bring your extras... I keep a can in my emergency kit (tools, extra plugs, extra points, condenser, cap, bandaids, prop nut/pin, lubes, etc...)

One thing you had better make sure the screw pin for the shift fork on the bottom side is through the shift fork or it will not shift is will be stuck on gear. The eash way to check is when the lower unit is off is pull the shift rod up and see if it goes into gear by turning the drive shaft and then push it down and see if the prop changes derection
As far as water in the lower unit I have seal a few and still get some water in there. just check the oil in the lower unit after each use and if it is real milky then change it. I do so many motors I save the lower unit oil and put it in and old crock pot and turn it on low and go out and sture it evey once in a while till all the water has boiled out. Don't ever turn the pot on high or it will boil over.
Mike aka pathfinderz1

Mike, if they ever give out a "Most Frugal Boater" award you'll get my vote! I've got no problems with using a file to mill your heads, cutting your own bowl gaskets out of sheet stock, etc., but "COOKING" your gear lube and re-using it ??? Please don't take this personally, you're a good fellow with good advise generally, but I'll put my Karma points on the line over this one.

Gear lube breaks down over time (usage) and picks up contaminants from other things besides water. (Metal from bushings, bearings, gears, etc.) While "removing" the water may help in one aspect, it certainly won't refresh the molecular structure of the lubricant, nor will it remove any other contaminants mentioned above. Even if you just use the cheapest store brand available, I would recommend using fresh gear lube at least once a year. It's a whole lot cheaper than replacing or rebuilding your gearcase.

I'm glad you've had good luck doing it that way, but certainly would not recommend it to others.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.............

Mike,
Good info thanks. Looks like I got it right it shifts into and out of gear so....

Mark, good point, you don't know what's in that water. Plus where I'm at (southern Maryland) I'll be running in brackish water i.e. Potomac and Patuxent Rivers so even more reason for me to just use new I would suppose.

60Fabuglas, Great info thanks. oven cleaner worked good. I also used some degreaser from the dollar store. The scanned lower unit pages would be great if you can. My e-mail is This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.. Much appreciated.

I checked the drive shaft and it seems to rock back and forth ever so slightly. I don't believe it should, should it? I don't know how close the tollerances were back then but I'm assuming it shouldn't move at all. Am I looking at a lower end rebuild?

I'm torn here because I want to see if the thing will run good first before I sink a lot of money into it, but I know I have to replace that impeller so I don't burn it up if it does run fine. I'm not even sure if the compression will come up once I get some fuel running through her. I'm guessing it will since there was soooo much carbon built up in the exhaust housing.

Suggestions anyone?

Bob

Bob,
The 10-page scan is too large to e-mail (55mb).. so I'm uploading it now to my website.
I should have reduced the resolution of the scans... but what the heck.. You can now print crystal-clear pages.

I'll update this post with a link when it finishes the upload...
It's a pretty big file- so be patient...
1959 Fat 50 Lower Unit Repair

Ray

Ray,
Thank you very, very much. Looks slightly different but close enough. This helps alot.
Thanks again, I owe you one. Definitely a Karma point I think.

Bob

Well I have about 40 motors form 1 1/2 to 75hp over half run and most lower units leak So that comes down to a lot of 80wt oil. I run in fresh water. So far have not had any problem using the oil I boil the water out of. I know its not the best but when you don't have the money you make do. Your advise is good not knocking it. If I was rich on had the money that I had before I got retarded O hell that retired I could do thing the best way. Any way I have found a lot of ways to make thing work for vary little money.
Mike aka pathfinderz1

Well, thanks to all who have helped me so far. I know it's been while. weather had turned great so went back to trying to finish the boat. Just need the windshield and should be good to go.

Anyway, rebuilt the carbs, fuel pump and new impeller. Removed all the old grease from the pull start and re-lubed it. IT's all back together but now it won't start. It's getting fuel from what I can tell. I tried to see if I was getting spark when it was on the stand. Left one plug out and jumped the starter to turn it over but really could tell if there was a spark.

Should I do the screwdriver in the plug wire close to the spark plug trick? Is it possible the breakers or condenser are bad? The breakers look a little pitted. Do the magnetos go bad that often?

Any suggestions.

Thanks,
Bob

Umm, OK, I'm an idiot. Apparently I didn't pour enough gas down the carbs!!! I was worried about flooding it. After 30+ years she wanted more than an ounce or so per carb. DOH!

She's running and starting every time now, but there's kind of a popping once in a while, almost like a dull bang coming out of the exhaust. I'm assuming it's because it hasn't run in so long. When it happens the whole motor shakes, kind of torques to one side.

Should I be worried about it?

Also there's like a brddd sound, like a dull knocking. I'm hoping it's not a rod knock. It's a higher pitch knock. I know the fuel mix is good. I did the 24 to 1 the original manual called for.

Any suggestions?

Bob

I too have a 59 fat fifty on my Larson. It too has a knocking sound when idling. But it runs fine. But not certain your knock is like mine.I think your popping sound could be caused by the low speed jet adjustment is a little lean. Try opening them up a little and see if that helps.

Dave,
Thanks I'll try that. I was messing around with the low speed jets some and that did seems to help. I'm going to take her out and get her wet tomorrow so I can adjust the high speed jets. Hope to give her a good tweaking then finish her up.

Bob

Well I got her on the water for a tweaking run. Woo Hoo! Ran pretty darn good. I preset the high speed at 1 1/2 turns and it ran great at high speed. Tweaked the low speed and got it to idle fine but the mid range is a little slugish. When you try to jump out of the hole it does ok but it's still sluggish in the mid range. Any ideas?

Bob

Try opening up your low speed jets a little more. But not too much. Try to get a happy median of good idle and take off.

Dave,
Thanks, I'll try that on the next outing. Hope to put the windshield in before then.

Bob

Sorry if I missed it in this thread... I have a 1959 Fat Fifty and I am trying to find instructions or a video on how to replace the lower unit rope or string seal? The engine runs great but it drips oil from the lower unit. I was told if oil can drip out then water can get in. Help and thanks

Mark, sorry never had my lower unit apart so I'm not sure which seal you're talking about. Unfortunately the previous owner I got the 75 & 80 hp motors, that I also have, "borrowed" the Evinrude manual back and I haven't seen it since. That was 3 years ago. I haven't had to take it apart and I've switched the motor out for the 80hp.

Bob

If your Fat Fifty has the "heavy duty" gearcase, the lower half is held on by a number of screws. In addition to those screws, there is one that goes in the side of the lower half & acts as the pivot point for the shift fork. This screw has to come out as well before removing the lower gearcase half. Once all the proper screws are removed, a "rap" on the side of the gearcase fin with a plastic/rubber mallet or chunk of wood, should easily break the lower half free.

You really need to do this job with the gearcase inverted. Otherwise, once you pull the lower half, the "guts" of the gearcase are likely to fall on the ground!

So, with your L/U upside down and sitting all pretty on the bench, you'd clean up the flanged surfaces of the upper & lower gearcase halves. Be sure to clean all the old glue out of the O-ring seal grooves.

While the gearcase is open, I'd highly recommend replacing the propshaft seal & seal carrier O-ring.

Clean the flanged surfaces with suitable solvent, then lay the spaghetti seal in the groove of the lower gearcase half. Push the seal material to the outside edges of the groove, on both sides. Trim the seal at each end, such that about 1/8" of the material extends over the machined edge of the gearcase.

In other words, the seal will be pushing a bit against the seal carrier once the gearcase is assembled. I imagine this promotes a good seal there and is certainly better than leaving a bit of a gap to leak!

You can use Permatex #3 sealer in the grooves but the spaghetti seal moves around and this makes it difficult for the novice to get things back together. If you use a thin coating of contact cement in the groove, it'll glue the seal in to where it won't move around on you.

Brush on a thin coating of Permatex No. 3 gasket dressing over the spaghetti seal & flanged surface. I like to put some on the seal carrier as well.

Make sure all the internals are still in their proper places, and the seal carrier retaining ring is fully seated in its groove in the upper gearcase.

Carefully assemble gearcase halves & screw together. I usually use a hand impact wrench to loosen & tighten these screws. Really helps when taking it apart, and you have less tendency to strip the screw heads.

When you reinstall the shift fork pin, if the hole in the shift fork isn't lined-up just right, move the shift shaft up-and-down until you see the hole reappear. Sometimes it helps to have a machinist's scribe to stick in the hole and realign.

Here's a pretty good parts diagram showing the exploded breakdown, with part numbers as a reference if you have any questions:

www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1959&hp=50&model=50016&manufacturer=Evinrude§ion=Gear+Case

HTH.........ed

p.s. just a thought, is the dripping oil "stinky" or just gassy-oily smelling? Gear oil has sulfur additives with a distinct smelly odor whereas the copious discharge of an old V-4 has that sweet, 2-stroke oil smell!

If you pull your gearcase drain plug and find only clean oil, at the proper amount, and you don't get milky oil after running the engine, it's probably not gear oil you're seeing.

ed-mc, wow thanks for taking the time to provide such a detailed response. I really appreciate it. I will check the smell of the oil. Unfortunately the boat is 5 hours away on the lake so I wont get there for another week or so. I will post after I am able to check it out. Thanks again

Yeah what Ed said! LOL Thanks for helping Ed.

Bob