TOPIC: larson help

DT,
Welcome aboard, glad to have you here. Some pics of what your doing and need the help on wi go far. Take a few pics of the stringers etc. and we can go from there. Lots of good folks here who can help.

Bob

here's some photos of the stringers.

here's some photos of the stringers.

Hard to tell much from the pic, but looks like you need to go with new structure in there DT. "I feel your pain", here's the thread to mine;
www.fiberglassics.com/glassic-forums/home/the-70-s-disco-fiber/new-project-71-glastron-gt-150
It finally cooled off a little here this weekend, so I'm headed back out to the garage to finish glassing in the new stringers, floor is next.

nice looking boat ya got there, nice work to. i don't think mine will turn out as nice. i'm gimped up from a spinal injury, so i explain what/how to do things and my 15 year old son does the hard work...his attention to detail still needs some work. i told him he better fix things right. since he's the only child, he's gonna inherit all my toys (66 bolens 1050, 67 750 bolens, 1956 allis chalmer wd 45, 71 chevy truck, and the boat). i ask him if he wanted to inherit junk or a nice classic boat. that put it into prospective for him....now he's paying a little more attention.lol

any idea how thick those stringers would be?

yep, stringers were junk, took the fiberglass off and the wood disinegrated like wet cardboard. the boat has been in my garage for over a year and the wood was still soaked.. well it's mostly tore out, now to find some 1"x10" treated planks some treated 3/4"plywood. sunny and 90 + degree's this week, so that should dry out all the foam. get started next week putting it back togethar. i'm thinking of glassing studs into the planks to bolt the seats to, that way i'm not running lag bolts through the glass and breaking the seal.

well, the floor is out. fortunately nothing was glued or expoxied to the foam, it was just sitting on it. no grinding. i left the one stringer in for referance purposes. bad news, while tearing out the floor i noticed the bolts for the motor that are going through the transome were starting to pull through. rub rail is off staples are out, just have to seperate the top now and replace the transom. ahhh, gotta love it. it ought to be good as new when it's finished. temp is up to 91 so time to quit for the day.btw sorry about the pic's, im not a photographer.

boat is now in two. most of the wood & foam (that foam is just nasty) is out. what is the purpose of the foam? all it seam to do is hold water & rot out the floor? there is no hoses to let the water drain from the front of the boat. something i will have to correct. the floor boards are just 1x4. i think i will use 2x4's. there is no floor support in the bow, the plywood was just sitting there. pulled out in 1 piece. any hints or tips you fella's have for doing this boat would be appriciated. this is my first time working on a boat.

DT,
Some more experienced guys and gals who have done this will jump in here but to answer your foam question, it's there for bouyancy. Especially, god forbid, if it flips over. It helps keep it afloat instead of sinking. As far as the stringers go, I would run two parallel to the keel about 6" to 8" either side of the keel, as far forward as possible, tapering to follow the hull line as you get toward the bow. I think 2 x 4's are over kill and will probably make the boat heavier than it needs to be. If you use 1x4's yu should be fine once they're glassed in correctly.

Just my two cents worth. Smarter folks on here can chime in and probably give you better advice than I.

Bob

foam is out and all that is left is a 1x2 running the middles of the boat at the "V". there a small 4 inch squares 1/2thick scatterd on both sides of the 1x2. i'm relplacing the 1x2, but the squares are treated plywood and in good shape. thanks for the info on the foam, guess i'll be putting some back in.

hmmm. not many people jumping in on this build...is my boat that ugly????

my question is wether i can use the 4x8 sheats of foam you get from lowes, or wether you have to use the pour foam or simler stuff from a boat dealer? also, the rails running down the inside of the boat. is that a factory thing or somebody's handi work?

Your boat is not ugly, DT, and there have been several responses to your questions. Sometimes getting a response takes a little time. Don't take it personally, okay!?

I used the foam you're talking about from the building supply stores, had a little extra laying around and doing my project on a tight budget. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, it is closed cell foam so it won't absorb water.
There are a few places I'll probably use the "great stuff" type foam, where it will be less likely to be subjected to water intrusion

The little hole you're pointing at looks like a speaker hole somebody cut into the boat, just my opinion......

Welcome dt
I know it is early in the game, but what kinda of motor are you going to use?
Neil

ooops, forgot to put the lol, after the ugly boat comment. i worked on tractors,trucks,cart, etc most of my life and am a member of a tractor forum and enjoy help others with there projects (i'm sure the members are the same here) sometimes you just don't get time for the computer.

the lowes foam is alot cheaper and i'm deffinetly on a budget. i'm thinking of running pvc plastic pipe (3/4") down the center of the boat on both sides of the v & on both sides of the foam, to allow any water (there better not be any after all this work) to the back of the boat were the drain is. using the great stuff to hold the pipe in place. then using the sheat type foam above it. wet foam and wood don't seem to go well togthar. from what i've seen on this boat.

Neil. the motor is up in the air right now. my controls are for an evinrude, but the cables are junk & it seem like most motors come with them anyways. i don't know whats good & whats not. i would like to have at least 55hp. from what others have said that should be big enough to pull a tube. although the boat is suppose to be for fishing. my 16 year old son disagree's. thanks for the input.

DT,
I would expect nothing less from a 16 year old! Of course it's always nice to have a good all around boat. As far as the side rails, I'm not familiar enough with the Larson's, but looks to be factory and I'm with Mark, probably a speaker hole in it.

Bob

i'm to the point were a person starts to wonder if all the work is worth it. i think i need a pep talk...not going to get one from the wife, she thinks i'm nuts for putting all this work into it.

what type of motor should i be looking for? again i would like it to be 55+ hp. long shaft/short shaft. i really am clueless when it comes to boats.

i seen the post for brightsides, but what type of paint should i be looking for. i got the "old gal" torn down to nothing, might as well give her a face lift.

any tips on repairing the keal? it looks like it been banged around abit...not surprising for a 40+year old boat.

any body try to polish the rub rails, windshield frame,etc? they are oxidated.

comments welcome.

I was going to do a larson but had to give it away because of neighbors bitching to authorities. What I was going to do was replace my stringers with a recycled plastic wood product they make here. It is the same dimensions as 5/4 treated planks for decks but all recycled plastic. I'll post a pic. It would never rot and you nail/screw it just the same. Used closed cell foam. Foam filled with water is both heavy and don't float very well. I might use this material for the bunks on my TeeNee trailer. It's made in 2X4 too. Just remember this is work in progress. results may take some time.

I used some Busch aluminum polish with 2500 grit sandpaper on my trim then finished with the cleaner on a cloth. Done great.

Dt,
Hang in there it'll all be worth it in the end. Besides it's your some doing most of the work right? Seriously though it will be worth it. For the motor measurements do a search in the "forum search" toward the top of this page. Unfortunately I didn't download the pic but I think Dr. Frankenmerc did one or it may have been Bruce Gerard, I can't remember but it's been reposted here a few times. It tells you exactly how to measure and what to get. Someone who has it and reads this can probably post it.

As far as paint goes, there's plenty of opinions here as you've probably already read. It does seem like the Rustoleum olds up great and a lot cheaper than most of the other stuff. I haven't tried it yet but probably will later.

For the keel you can either use polyester or epoxy. If you not going to gel coat the outside you can use epoxy and MarineTex comes in small amounts that can be mixed and put on quickly then sanded and painted. Just remember you CAN"T gelcoat over epoxy. if you use epoxy you have to paint it. Other folks can chime in here regarding this Go to the research section and read Jamil Mahdi's articles. Really good stuff, lots of info.

Polishing the aluminum on my boat I used Blue Coral Liquid Metal Polish and it worked real well. there's plenty of different options here. See what ever everyone else is using and make your decision.

Hope this helped.

Bob

thanks, for the help and info. like i said, i don't know much about boats. the boy is doing most of the work, but it's really hard to keep him interested. work on an old boat or go play with his friends....lol

didn't know you couldn't gelcoat over epoxy. actualy i didn't know any of the stuff that has been posted. robert sorry to hear about your larson, do you happen to know the name of that stuff?

i guess it's just hard to imagine it's actually a boat, with the hull stripped down and the top sitting in the yard. we must have took 100lbs or better of stinking wet foam out of the boat. a problem i don't want to have happen again.

i just planed on rough sanding the boat and then painting it. the bottom looks like it may have been painted before, but the top seams original. really oxidated. thanks again for all the info

I still out there. If you look uo Three Rivers Paintball and look through their pictures ans see a tiger striped boat on a little lake or pond then you found my old Larson. It had some very nice chrome and a spot light. Here is a pic.

i like the idea of the composite, i was planning on glassing all the boards/stringers before i installed them, to keep them from getting wet. i wouldn't have to do that with the composite. btw, that's a nice boat, what were the nieghbors complaing about? not even a bad paint job.

waterwings, thanks for the tip on the research tap, never even noticed it. no wonder i wasn't getting many posts, the info is right there, i just needed to find it. have patients with me, i'm new to the site and boating.

i'm guessing that i should remove all the snaps & epoxy or glass the holes shut. or will a new cover line up with the old snaps. (something tells me no). depending on how much cash i have in the boat, i'm thinking of replacing all the vents, tiedowns & lights. the pole light in the back is definetly getting replaced. it really looks bad, and when i went to change the bulb it was full of water.

if you want to use the snaps your boat will need a custom made cover..and they ain't cheap. i was quoted $450 for my 14' mantaray. ron

ok, that answers that question. I'll be taking them out and glassing over them. thanks for the info Ron.

DT,
No problem, we've all been there before. It's always nice to have a new member with an appreciation for the classics and willing to learn how to bring them back. be careful though, it does become addicting!!!!!!!!!!!! Many here can vouch!

Bob

I hope it don't become addicting....I have enough projects accumulated. most of them i have the stuff to fix them, just didnt have time when i worked all the time, now i'm gimped up & dont no if they will ever get done. the doc's think the damage to my spinal cord is permanent. if things don't get better soon, i will probly have to make the hard decision to sell them. when i was looking for an old car to restore i stopped at house after house that had classics sitting in the weeds. they didnt want to sell them. "they were going to fix them up". most are still there. i don't want to be that guy.

as for the boat. the boy is sanding the inside of the hull in prep, for new wood & get all the carpet glue out. the lip were the top & bottom meet, is cleaned & sanded. i miss spoke earlier, below the water line was painted (with a brush), the sides were not. i have the 1 x 2 treated for the "V" and vinal stringers. i want to get every thing laid into place & make sure the top of the boat still lines up. if so, i'll tack & glass it all together.

all the damn carpet glue is out of the boat. there are some small cracks in the hull and i would like to sand and epoxy them & repair the keal. since the top is off and the floor/foam is out, is it ok to turn the boat upside down (sure hope that's the only time it's upside down.)to make it easier to get to them or would that cause the sides to bow or twist the hull making it imposible to re-align the top?

I noticed an add for a old larson with a fuel tank under the bow, i don't have one, but who knows what "custumizing" this poor boat has went through. what is the advantage/disadvantage of a tank in the bow. would it be worth putting one there again? hope you guy's arent getting tired of my endless questions..there is some serious talent on this site. wow. there are some awsome boats to.

Mine had a tank under the bow deck. It must have been designed to carry the weight up front. It had some nice hardware on that boat. My flor was only weak in a small spot back by the transom. Transom needed replaced but was solid enough to use maybe a 9.9 for fishing. I guess you'll have to wait and see how it handles.

I'm jumping in late on this, just didn't have time to peruse the forum much. You have a project all right, goes hand in hand with my Herters flying fish that I started two weeks ago except the fish has no floor to contend with. The bracing on the upper deck area was rotted from water seeping through the screw holes so when you get to that area you might want to seal all your brightwork real well. I had to grind off all the grommets from old canvas, what a pain! You never mentioned the transom on your Larson, how's it look? You are right boats get into your blood and you are starting a habit. I've been doing it off and on for close to 30 years and the wife still ...... when I bring home another project. Had to sell off most of my stuff a few years ago but I itched so much I had to jump in again, hence the Herters.
Best of luck and keep those pictures coming.
Cal

I know my transom had a small 6-10 inch area in the lower corner but the rest seemed solid. I was going to convert it from an inboard to outboard use. It came in both ways. I was going to convert it just for fishing so outboard size was not a problem. I'm glad I didn't do it because it was a big 17 ft monster and I fish by myself in very shallow water at times.

when we were removing the floor, i noticed the bottom motor bolts were pulling through the fglass took the plate of the top..mulch. so we cut the boat in two. was told the boat had a small leak, no wander..there are holes drilled all over the place. it started as just having a small week spot in the floor, yea... plywood over rotten stringer. so a small project turned into a big one. funny how that happens.

my son got a new game for the ps3, so i'm having to drag the him into the garage. ahhh, why did they invent this stuff....

for the holes that are drilled in the hull, is it ok to just use a tube of epoxy to fill them or do i need to grind and fglass them? my plan was to put a fglass patch on the inside of the boat and epoxy the hole on the outside sand it down and paint over it.

the lip were the top and bottom join (inside the rubrail) was stapled togethar. any suggestions on what to join them toghetar with. i dont think the stapler on my desk is gonna work..lol

How permanent do you want to make the joint? When I put my fish back together I'm going to lay a bead of 3M 5200 and then through bolt like original. I've done some boats that had a 2" strip of plywood glued to the inside and wood screws used to hold the topside and bottom together, either way would work. The 5200 is a permanent waterproof adhesive, the glass will tear before the bond breaks. My process for holes is to lay glass cloth behind the hole and fill from the good side. Not for under the waterline though, that's a different process.
Cal

I would like to make it permanent. I have no desire to tear this apart again.....lol. I plan on making sure all is done correctly, so that i will hopefully not have to. The 3m 5200 sound like the way to go. most of my repairs are above the water line. I want to fix the keal and a couple spots below the water line. I also know there are some cracks (look like stress cracks in the paint). below the water line. that's why i would like to flip the hull over. I'm not able to crawl around like i use to and laying on a creaper aint happing without a crane to pull me back up.

oh, btw. welcome aboard to my project. Cal, is your project on here some place? I would be interested to see it. I enjoy surfing through this site looking at all the projects...I especialy like projects that are a few steps ahead of me...gives me an incentive to get were there at.. so far, after learning more about boats is, I think I would have liked an open bow. I have seen some boats with very large rails in the front in order to fish from the bow. is that a possibility with this little larson? you guy's must be going nuts with all the questions. If I would have found this site before the project...oh, well.

Here's a little tip before you flip your boat. Get some cheap 2x4's, I usually pick up the ones that are tossed by construction people. cut them to the width of your hull and screw them in place. I use regular drywall screws with fender washers. This way you brace the sides, keep the intrgrity of the hull and you can flip the shell over without worring about cracking it in half.
Here's a picture where you can partially see what I'm trying to describe.

epoxy-poly,etc will not stick to treated wood for more than 1 or 2 boat rides. you have to use un treated in my experiance

wow, didnt know that. well, the build just got cheaper...lol.

If you shouldn't use treated what type should i use, pine/basswood is pretty soft, oak is probly to heavy. hard maple/hickory like to split, locust would last forever, but I don't think they mill it, so i would have to take some to a mill. maybe popular or aspen.

Should I use dried wood? it wouldn't expand as much? there are still a few mills around that i can get rough cut lumber from.

welcome dt,im sorry i havent posted ,i am only on a little these days,trying to get caught up on a crap load of stuff around the house.
you asked if its worth it,i think it is ,myself and ed gordon put about 3 years off and on ,restoring a custom craft sunray,as your working on it,you tend to feel overwhealmed,but if you push through,you will get it done,and you will be very proud of your son and your boat.
the folks here are the best there is ,they are giving you some great info,so welcome and have a blast,john

DT, Like John said, keep plowing through. I used to have a neighbor across the street that had a Larson exactly like that, same color, everything. He had a 100hp Chrysler hanging on the back with the fuel tank and battery under the bow. After his family grew up and away he donated it to a local charity. It was tied to the dock all summer and skiing was the name of the game. Wonderful boat.
Cal

what type should i use

Lots of folks use plywood (marine grade or acx sealed with resin), for stringers some prefer hardwoods with douglas fir at the top of the list, I went with spruce myself and glassed it in well (I hope!). The drier the better, what ever you choose.

PS - Cal's thread has some great tips, as well as several others i here. I spend every spare moment I have researching methods and material recommendations others have made, probably to a fault. (Too much thinking, not enough working.)

I would like to start this with a safety tip, that most of you probly already know, but I sure didn't. when working on a boat that is on a trailer, if the tongue of the trailer isn't hooked to a vehicle, block up the back of the boat. since the transom is the shortest part of the boat we have using it to get in & out. well, yesterday i went to get in the boat and the front of the trailer/boat shot up in the air, sending me tumbling out over the transome and spilling me onto the concrete floor. MAN OVER BOARD!!!

floor is clean and ready to build
this is all that supports the stringers, this U shaped fglass thing? and the foam.....ohhh, that miserable stinking, wet foam. sorry just having a flash back.

I'm going to reglass were the stringers are for more support & it appears to be a factory ooops on the middle stringer support thing, they cut the fglass down to far on the left side, the outside hull & foam was holding up the left side stringer. the stringers were not glassed or glued, nothing... just sitting in the pockets on the sides and laying on the foam and the thing in the middle. I cut the one side of the pocket so i can slide the stringer into the opposite side and will only have to reglass the side i cut. I have decided to use vinyal for the stringers. since i don't have to worry about fglass sticking to it & it won't rot.

I read horror stories on re-doing boat floors, grinding fglass, cursing and swearing trying to get the stringers out. were this was easier, since all the wood was just laying there, I'm not sure i like the idea of my floor and stucture of the boat being foam?