TOPIC: the thread for project x 2011/help a sick child

John - Are those new seats single seats? If so, I'd go slow on buying them. Look at the interior shots of the MRP I posted last night. The MRP cabin's floor is set up for sunloungers. You'll have to do some serious modification to get seating for 4 if you want to use those singles. You'll have a lot less work to do if you replace the seats with sunlounger style. Options abound with those. B

brian yeah i know,but i can make brackets for it,it will be more work,but the seats in the sunray were 600 bucks and the bases were 10 inches high,i had to cut them way down anyway,i just figured we could get them and save alot of money,i ordered 2 for the lido and will have to make brackets for them also.
but i do see what your talking about,thank you brian.

I vote no on the single seats.

I think we should get loungers if we can't replicate the originals.

We are still looking for someone to do the upholstery if someone is willing to step up, correct?

As a matter of fact there are two heights for the lounger seats and we may have to go with the shorter 8" base. The 10" base seats are nicer, and either one may need to be cut down as it is. We may end up with the 10" and have to cut them down. On the Sting Ray, I had to pitch the bases altogether.

i just looked back at the interior pics,and with the seats and matching vinyl,i think i could really make it look good,without a lot of trouble,john

Those were my thoughts as well this morning John, I was having broadband problems and lost the connection. My opinion would be to stick with the lounge style seating to keep the seating capacity at four. The old seats could either be redone or reconstructed, cover style and material To Be Determined, but it would also simplify the mounting and keep more with the original design and character of the craft. Gotta get to work, but I wanted to throw in my perspective.

dave i cut down the lounger seats in the sunray,its a honey comb plastic ,it took awhile,as for the interior i can do it myself,like i did on the sunray,it wont be exactly like the original,but im pretty sure if we buy seats,even lounger seats and get the vinyl to match i can do it.the reson im looking at seats already is after the seats and vinyl are bought,i canmatch the paint to the interior,i can do it,if you guys want lounger seats thats fine with me,i think they will look great,i was just trying to save a couple of bucks,but the lounger seats will look great,john

Here are the seats I was referring to:
http://www.c-mesales.com/contents/en-us/d43.html

Sorry, having trouble copying the pics.

The 10" are the deluxe, and give more choices of color:
$199 ea.



8"
$169 ea

mark i think it will be alot easier and cheaper to buy seats then have the old ones redone by a professional,no matter what we can never match the original vinyl,especially with those squares in them,i agree we should go with lounger seats too,like i said i was just trying to save a couple of bucks.
we bought the sunray seats from cabellas,because we could get matching vinyl,thats important to have it all match,you guys pickout the style of seats,and ill be able to make the interior look good .
no console in this though.unless you all want one.john

cc is it my computer?i cant see them.

like i said if we buy seats and vinyl,we wont need an upholsterer,i can do it.what an upholsterer was needed for was if we went with the original seats and square stitching.

dave i like those,and if we went with a grey interior i could do whatever i need to with paint scheme,do thy sell matching vinyl?if not i know i can get grey vinylto match pretty easy,the other colors would be hard to match.

They don't sell vinyl there. It's pretty easy to get as you said.

I matched the paint to the vinyl accent stripe on mine.

Not how I originally planned it, but it seemed to work out.

ok,i vote for grey and i can find the matcing vinyl here in a joanns fabric store in town,ill just take one of the bases in to match it,if that ok withe rest of you,john

john, i'll send you a check for the seats on ebay (if thats what you decide to get)since i don't expect any donations until the boat is under resto. one thing you might want to check is the height of the seats. i don't think it would look too good if they are higher than the gunnels. ron

Guy's, there's a guy down the road here who has a warehouse full of sun loungers! $60 for a set ... I swear! Oh, and I'm glad ya'll decided on those .... I wasn't really getting a good feel on the bucket seat, so far as character goes.

Havent had time to read this whole thread but the seats in the boat on the preeceding dont look that hard to copie. I use an antique Treddle sewing machine to sew vinyl the new machines just dont do the job. Probably no help at all.. but I am at work and shouldnt be looking at this at all... Good luck on the Project I'm sure it will come out great.

Oh, and in a wide variety of colors too. But the bases will definately have to be altered, none are that low pro. I may even be able to talk him into donating a set, if ya'll want. I just fixed his lawn mower a few weeks back, and I cut him a deal (since I'm planning on getting a couple sets for my boats as soon as I get my $ right! LOL!).

I have to confess, I am with Brian on this one. IF this is indeed the last MRP, then it should be treated with a certain reverence and we should try to bring it back to as close to original as possible. Once the last one is gone, they are extinct. Certain things, like paint jobs, can be removed and a hull re-gelcoated if necessary, but we should be careful about things like omitting trim. It should, IMHO, but brought back as a Manta Ray Premier with all of the bells and whistles. Anything that is original should be re-used as much as possible.

What is the problem with the back-to-backs that are in the boat? Are they original? Could they be re-used? What is the deal with the vinyl sheeting? What condition is it in? My Aqua Ray has it everywhere in the interior. No exposed glass other than gel coat. (Side note: The guy who designed the sheeting for CC was at the show in Buffalo a couple of weeks ago)

We are sort of the gate keepers of classic fiberglass boats. If they slip through our hands, they may be gone forever. (OK, melodramatic, but it does make a point). In certain situations, we need to be wary of preservation as much as restoration.

(FWIW, I have toyed with the idea of buying what is probably the last Airide and restoring it just for this reason. According to TF&TT, they were made in Hudson, MA for one year, 1961. It is a fairly ordinary 14 ft runabout and is located in the basement of an old mill building not far from me. The original factory building is still in existence and has been abandoned for many years.)

Another 2 cents

Everyone seems to agree that we should do everything within our ability to get it as close to original as we can, but obviously $ limits how able we are. I have a similar problem with my lone star cadet ... It's not the very last, there's 1 more that I know of, maybe more. But it's not going to have me attack it till I can do it right, so it sits for now. You're actually not too far from the mark tudor, melodramatic or not. When I got my cadet a few years back and hit the net full force researching I learned the FG family is THE top of the classic boat food chain. If it's not saved once it get here, there's no hope left.

thetudor wrote:

I have to confess, I am with Brian on this one. IF this is indeed the last MRP, then it should be treated with a certain reverence and we should try to bring it back to as close to original as possible. Once the last one is gone, they are extinct. Certain things, like paint jobs, can be removed and a hull re-gelcoated if necessary, but we should be careful about things like omitting trim. It should, IMHO, but brought back as a Manta Ray Premier with all of the bells and whistles. Anything that is original should be re-used as much as possible.

What is the problem with the back-to-backs that are in the boat? Are they original? Could they be re-used? What is the deal with the vinyl sheeting? What condition is it in? My Aqua Ray has it everywhere in the interior. No exposed glass other than gel coat. (Side note: The guy who designed the sheeting for CC was at the show in Buffalo a couple of weeks ago)

We are sort of the gate keepers of classic fiberglass boats. If they slip through our hands, they may be gone forever. (OK, melodramatic, but it does make a point). In certain situations, we need to be wary of preservation as much as restoration.

(FWIW, I have toyed with the idea of buying what is probably the last Airide and restoring it just for this reason. According to TF&TT, they were made in Hudson, MA for one year, 1961. It is a fairly ordinary 14 ft runabout and is located in the basement of an old mill building not far from me. The original factory building is still in existence and has been abandoned for many years.)

Another 2 cents

All valid points.

I am looking into having that pattern reproduced as well, but didn't want to say anything until I had a little more info.

May even be a chance that there is some of it left around here.

We don't need to decide on this right away, and I think we should proceed with the goal of the most accurate reproduction that we can.

Lots of things still need to be worked out.

If there is a desire from the group to have a chat on this in the chat room, all that is needed is to agree on a time. I'm available most Monday and Wednesday evenings around 7, possibly some Thursdays as well although this Thursday is out.

Lone Wolf... I think the motor is a `62, it is a FGS...been awhile. Will confirm when I get to MI.

If it is the last of its breed I think as close as possable to original is in order. Extra CC parts I have are limited, been hard to find. I do have the stern light(crack lins), steps & 1 bow center cleat extra, all need rechromed, as do my set. I have not seen a bow light come up for sale in 9 months on ebay, mine was replaced a long time ago. It's kinda hard to tell from the pics but I don't have anything to match the dash stuff. My dash was blank, just an aluminum plate on stbd side, think for a light switch. No sign of a gauge installed. If you think you'll need the stern light(crack lins), steps & 1 bow center cleat, let me know in a real soon. The stuff is packed but can still get to for a couple days when the boat gets sealed. Its tough to shelf it

Sounds like things are movin' long. John you did the heavy lifting already...gettin' us off our butts for this.

Well, movers come tomorrow morn I gots lots ta do.

Chat room meeting sounds good Dave, there were several posts made while I was thinking and typing my response this morning. Kinda throws things out of "kilter" in the discussion, sorry.
(Just happened again!!! Hey Cat.)
I get home from work about 6:30 to 7PM, just let me know.

Shannon, I'm going to call you this afternoon about delivery of the shipment, and getting some of those lounge seats for my boat too!

Just remembered I also have an extra transom handle.

like i have been saying i will use the old interior for patterns,thats exactly what i did on the sunray,everything was original except new wood and vinyl,we bought seats because the seats that were in it were very bad,and the cost of having someone reupholster them was cost prohibitive,the seats cost 600 bucks for both sides(im glad it was eds boat at that moment)but they were cheaper then having a pro do it.
if you guys can find the original vinyl i think that would be great,but that vinyl is alomst 50 years old and i think would be hard to find,i also plan on using all the hardware the boat had,i have 2 good transom handles in the garage we can use them,they are in great condition.
tudor,i plan on using every original part i can,and also plan on new vinyl all through the boat ,with no glass showing,just like i did here ,its the same as it was just a differnt color.if you look closly everything is covered,it took every bit of 12 yards,plus new carpet. heres the finished dash before installation sorry im using this pic again but its agood pic of the interior,i even blocked off up under the bow,so it looked more finished and you couldnt see under the dash .if you notice the splashwell cover i used the old rotted one for a pattern.plus you can see i even padded the lower part of the dash and vinyled it too. the sides are also done in vinyl,with storage pockets,just like it was,the only thing i added was under the splashwell,so you cant see the gas tanks,i plan on putting in vents in the panels.in some of these pics the lighting is bad .

OK, good deal , thx cat, I found me some good exp-dia, boats.net seems to have parts for it if I need any... hoping that's not the case though, other than the mandatory replacers of course. Haven't worked on one of those before, so that'll be fun! Love doing new old stuff!

Mark s, cool, I'll leave the shop fan off so I can hear the phone! LOL! If I miss ya (I'm mowing the yard today also, so I might), I'll call ya right back asap.

Lonewolf...anyone with Merc learnin'. If you can think of any parts that might be good for me to grab and send along. I have a complete `61 700 powerhead sittin' in my Radio Flyer that is tag for the scrap yard.

Well, I pray nothing that major needs parts! LOL! If it was running fine before being stored, it should just need cleaning, impeller, seals/gaskets ... you know, the basics. But OMG!! Don't be sending no working antique parts from ANYTHING to the scrap yard! That stuff's too hard to find!! LMFAO! Seriously though, if it doesn't affect the shipping price send any parts that will fit the bad boy. If any of them are in better condition, I can mix & match. But it'll depend on what series it is, 1296411 THRU 1413610 or 1413611 THRU 1566239, if it's not in the same series, it likely wont fit.

John, I know ya wanna keep the color scheme under wraps as a surprise, but I'm gonna head up to the guy's place with the $60 sun lounger sets and need to know what color to be looking for. He may not have the color you have in mind, so I need to know.

Can you take some pictures of some of the seats? I'm might be interested in buying some of them.
Thanks,
Pete

shannon,i was just going to say the same thing as delray,lol,can you get pics of the colors he has?it would help to see them.thanks john

OK guy's, just got back. He wasn't there, and from the looks of it, he doesn't have many sunlounger back to backs left. He's been selling them pretty fast at $60 a set obviously. But, he may be able to get more, I dunno if that was a 1 shot deal, or if he has regular supply. He still has plenty singles, in the same style as the sunloungers, I shoulda thought to take my camera ... DUHHH .... sorry bout that one. Here's his info though. George Montgomery #8703919523

Saturday I'll be sealing up my Manta with the parts inside. If you want any of the extra parts I need to pull them before. I'm not sure...has a project mgr been choosen?

catfin,we will take any extra parts you have,and if we dont use them ill send them back to you,thank you john

i just found these seats at overtons,if you buy one its 209 bucks,but if you buy two it 199 dollors,nice seats,john plus they have atchimg vinyl.

John
My sister in law is a buyer for Gander Mountain out of Minneapolis.
Overtons is an affiliate of Gander. I do not know if I can make it happen, but maybe she could get a donated set from them. I will get ahold of her this weekend and see what she has to say.
She can get some pretty good employee discounts and she could ship straight to you if this is an option for the seats.
It looks like there are a few posted options pertaining to the seats, reading through the posts here.
Gander and Overtons has a pretty broad marine selection, and we could just send her a list of wants and see what she could do for us.
When I explain the goal of the project, I'm thinking she will help out in some way.
Neil

wow,neil that would be great,as soon as the other commitee members look at this we will let you know,but can you ask her for us s soon as possible,thank you so much john.p.s ask about matching vinyl too.

Whewy! Take an evening off and it takes hours to catch up on the reading! Gents, I may sound like a naysayer, which I am not trying to be, but I will always say what's on my mind.

You're hundreds of hours away from needing seats and hundreds of dollars shy on materials you need to build the boat. This is not the time to be buying and storing finish materials that won't be needed for 6-8 months. Deals like those noted are always available on the web. Companies are always discontinuing items and doing fire sales on stuff that didn't sell. I would not be buying finish material now. I'd be working getting MAT, cloth, resin, Kitty Hair, finish filler, sand paper, putty knives, etc. purchased. This is where the project manager needs to be heavily involved to lay this out. I mean when you're building a house do you start by buying a new living room sofa?

When it comes time for seats, I recommend that Garelick out of MN be contacted. They are the absolute tops, have been around over 50 years, and may be willing to donate a set because of the classic twist, or at least give X2011 a break. I use Garelick's in every restoration I've done that needed seating that wasn't wood. They are built very well.

brain the reason im looking now is if i get matching vinyl,and the old peices that are upholstered here i can start upholstering it,during the winter using the old peices as templates,i can do allthat and have it ready for spring/summer,just like i did in the pic above in this post where you see the old and new sides together on a table,john

Got it. Agree.

thanks brian,im going to work on the lido when i can,but the only heat out in my garae is 3 oil filled radiators,so on cold days i can work on the interor in my heated basement,thanks for understanding,john,here is the old with the new splashwell cover being built